HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This. In fact, if Bruce Edgar put his hand up, I'd be happy to slot him in ahead of McIntosh.
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**Official** Pakistan in New Zealand (3 tests)
- Thread starter S.P. Fleming
- Start date
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Sure just give him a phone call...
Hi Mark, have I got an offer for you! How would you like to give up your incredibly cushy job presenting tv sports shows, getting paid to make bad jokes, watch cricket and occasionally write 300 words for the NZ Herald? Yeah, that's right, series decider. Chance for glory. No I don't know who you'd be opening with... Yep, Asif and Aamer, not worried about them are you Mark? Mark? I can't hear you? Oh... ... you've hung up.
Somerset
Cricketer Of The Year
Haha, good stuff.
Obviously Fulton deserved to be given an opportunity to represent New Zealand again after his strong start to the domestic season, just as he deserved to be discarded for the final test. I get the impression that its very likely that Watling will debut and therefore open and as Days of Grace hinted to, push Guptill down to number three and Flynn to the middle order. IMO that actually looks a more balanced outfit, although thats hardly going to matter if we're 2/10 or thereabouts in the fifth over, as we've been accustomed to in the last few tests.
Somerset
Cricketer Of The Year
Why the sad face to Guptill scoring a century at first drop? Hell, if he can score runs at number three, flat pitch or not, leave him at number three for a while I'd have though.Agreed
Guptill to ton up on a road and be labeled a number 3 for the rest of his career
Flem274*
123/5
We drop the guy with the best, most consistent First Class and New Zealand A record yet retain the one century a FC season wonder who can't play the short or full ball and the one season wonder who makes pretty, gritty 49s with an overkill backlift?
On top of that if this is a straight swap and Watling will bat five, we have an opener who averages thirty picked to bat number five ahead of all the other middle order batsmen with more experience and better records by at least ten runs in many cases.
EDIT: Dad seems to think its confirmed T Mac and Watling will open with Guptill at three and Flynn at five.
Not that it matters. McIntosh and Flynn still arent up to it though it wouldnt surprise me if they flat track bullied a place saving hundred.
On top of that if this is a straight swap and Watling will bat five, we have an opener who averages thirty picked to bat number five ahead of all the other middle order batsmen with more experience and better records by at least ten runs in many cases.
EDIT: Dad seems to think its confirmed T Mac and Watling will open with Guptill at three and Flynn at five.
Not that it matters. McIntosh and Flynn still arent up to it though it wouldnt surprise me if they flat track bullied a place saving hundred.
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Somerset
Cricketer Of The Year
Though you do have to keep in mind that hes also the guy with one test half century and no test hundreds in 16 test match innings...I suppose hes at least still consistent in a different regard.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Bad call Phlegm. Flynn looked easily the best out of all the guys we want dropped. I'd say McIntosh and Elliott are next to go.
Flynn and Guptill following.
All dependant on performances.
Flem274*
123/5
Flynn looks a test batsman in every area bar the runs column.
McIntosh should be gone already so no argument there.
Elliott's looked a lot better technically than Flynn. Stupid shot selection in the second dig but he doesnt go 'Oh no its swinging into my pads, what do I do?"
Guptill is a class above Flynn. Up until this series he's got himself out most of the time by being too attacking, he's been on the receiving end of some very good opening bowling this time around.
EDIT: I do believe Fulton should have been dropped, but Flynn and McIntosh are no better. i suspect with Fulton its a confidence thing thats affecting his footwork. Even if our domestic comp is that dire, he's scored runs against some pretty good A sides.
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Athlai
Not Terrible
Flynn's received great bowling too. Hes been out there in the first over 3 times and second over once. Was practically opening for us, I reckon he may be able to stable our innings a bit at 5. He defitinitely has issues but looked a lot better than Fulton, Mc and Elliott IMO. Guppy has got some gems but he should really be sticking around.
Flem274*
123/5
At five he'll just get owned by any spin drifting into him instead.
Or just more inswingers which is more likely with McIntosh, Watling and Gutpill likely getting out within three overs. Though Watling is a good stonewaller and unlike McIntosh has some technique behind him. He's a project though, like Guptill. Hopefuly he bats like he does for NZ A rather than as he does for the majority of his FC career.
Flynn just isn't a good batsman atm. Its debateable whether he deserved to be picked in the first place, he was sheltered at number six and got out after making starts, was elevated to three and scored some fifties vs the WI then went back to making starts and getting out then got owned by Pakistan. He's had one good season in FC cricket and since arriving at test cricket his technique has deteriorated. He's not getting forward like he used to, hovering on the back foot and leaving massive gaps between bat and pad.
Let him go back to ND and NZ A and get some runs and confidence.
Fulton, whilst looking completely awful, has dominated FC and A team cricket and has had a tough run in test cricket, having to open in the Bracewell era for example.
I would leave him alone for a long time, but its a damn shame he went the way he did, as opposed to Flynn who was completely predictable.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I think Fulton has a right to look over his shoulder and wonder why he is the only casualty. He did as well as the other 4 people on death row. But I guess it was a case of last on first off the bus. The others with the exception of Elliot were incumbents.
Flynn at 5 is going to be the slowest number 5 in test match history (no one check on this please I am just being emotive) -
I actually wouldn't mind Howsie's suggestion of McCullum opening with Mcintosh and pushing everyone down one spot. But the only problem with this suggestion is that McCullum will bat all seriously and his defensive game isn't that great compared to real international openers. So probably in review it is better that he bats at 7.
Finally - I think Broom's ODI performances cost him a chance of representing NZ. His stink innings against Shahid Afridi and other spinners made him look like he wouldn't last against the likes of Kaneria.
And final final note - I think the selectors had a tough job and with no one really being a compelling case as a replacement (see Broom comment above) they made an average decision today.
Flynn at 5 is going to be the slowest number 5 in test match history (no one check on this please I am just being emotive) -
I actually wouldn't mind Howsie's suggestion of McCullum opening with Mcintosh and pushing everyone down one spot. But the only problem with this suggestion is that McCullum will bat all seriously and his defensive game isn't that great compared to real international openers. So probably in review it is better that he bats at 7.
Finally - I think Broom's ODI performances cost him a chance of representing NZ. His stink innings against Shahid Afridi and other spinners made him look like he wouldn't last against the likes of Kaneria.
And final final note - I think the selectors had a tough job and with no one really being a compelling case as a replacement (see Broom comment above) they made an average decision today.
Xuhaib
International Coach
I feel Guptill has good potential, he's been unfortunate that he has to tackle two high quality seamers on realitivley seaming tracks wit the new ball. In the long run I reckon he will be fine.
Flynn is also another that can stick it out not a bad player I feel, Elliott is decent against seam but a real walking wicket to the spinner while Mcintosh and Fulton are just plain dire.
Flynn is also another that can stick it out not a bad player I feel, Elliott is decent against seam but a real walking wicket to the spinner while Mcintosh and Fulton are just plain dire.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Flynn has a pretty good strike rate these days.
Flem274*
123/5
He's actualy worse. Its a real shame.
Elliott does look okay against the seamers, theoretically we could try him up the order but its not worth the risk though you could argue things suck enough anyway.
I'd stick with Guptill as well, at least for two years since debut.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
That's not nice, hope she is ok.
Would also be a massive blow to Pakistan's chances in the final match if it's bad enough that they need to go home.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
I disagree that Fulton did just as well as McIntosh, Flynn, Elliott and Guptill. IMO Fulton is clearly the first one who should have been dropped, followed by McIntosh. Splitting hairs but Fulton only beats out McIntosh by virtue of the fact that the opener spot is harder to replace.
There is at least a chance that Guptill, Flynn and/or Elliott will eventually be decent performers at test level. Plus they've all scored at least a whopping 30% more runs than Fulton and McIntosh in the series so far
. Agree with your comments on Broom though - there's no doubt that his ODI performances counted against him.
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