The MMA/UFC Thread

[duffer]

Will be interested to see what you make of the main event in mute Duff, don't think i can handle it personally watching that fight again will be too depressing

I tried it and couldn't be swayed too much from my earlier views. I gave Machida round 2 convincingly and round 3 due to his late flurry. First round Shogun edged, last two he won comfortably.

One thing we probably need to take into account is how the judging is done. Apparently Machida stuffing a takedown (which he did a few times) is considered good grappling and is an indication of fight control. Agree somewhat in the right context but thought Shogun only went for the takedown to keep his attack more varied and wasn't overly concerned they were being stopped because he was winning the stand up.

I also thought Lyoto managed to counter a few shots very well when Shogun got forward but he did considerably less damage. All in all I thought Shogun should've won but can see where the judges would've scored more the win for Lyoto. Rua's team were brilliant tactically, Machida considered the most elusive fighter in the UFC so what do they do? They target his larger areas like his ribs and legs and see if they can wear down his mobility. Execution was perfection, I loved it.

Cannot ****ing wait for the rematch though. Machida is going to come in a different fighter after hearing the stuff being said about him and Rua looks like the Pride beast. So so ****ing incredible.

What does blow is Brock is out of UFC 106 due to apparently having swine flu. This would make Forrest-Tito the Main Event which I can stomach because I love both of them.

UFC 108 is now a freak card though:

Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin
Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort
Rashad Evans vs. Thiago Silva
Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Junior dos Santos
Tyson Griffin vs. Jim Miller
Carlos Condit vs. Paul Daley

Wow, holy **** wow.

 

[Majin]

That's why it blows so much for mine, Shogun's strategy was so perfect this fight and as you said he executed it pretty brilliantly, and now in the next fight Machida is going to know all about it and you know a guy like him will find a way to go about things differently as mentioned. Whole thing is a crock but it's neither guys fault, the backlash towards Machida has been very over the top and unnecessary, he wasn't judging the fight. Just wish it had gone the right way because Shogun deserves the strap. I hope in the next fight he takes it to the ground and goes fully Pride Shogun and dominates Lyoto there and puts it beyond all doubt.

Also sucks about Brock, but yeah damn that 108 card is ridiculous. Anderson vs Belfort is gonna be epic, and Rashad vs Thiago should be an awesome fight. Hope Paul Daley can build on his debut as well I like his style and I'd like to see him fight fatboy Rumble if he can ever actually make it down to WW.

edit: although, the main event of 106 for me will always be Karo's return. His judo throws are the best.

 

[Majin]

Anyone still following TUF? Love how they take the opportunity to plug Kimbo whenever they can, Dana talked nuff **** about him but he knows who his cash cow is this series will be suave if he gets to fight again though, big fan of the man ITBT he is a good bloke and would like to see him throw hands again before the series is over.

So happy Rampage managed to get a win finally, love Big Baby, was pretty impressed with his performance against Wessel, that armbar came out of god damn nowhere was awesome. Hope he gets into the final. Hope Nelson gets hammered down as well, dude is a ****.

 

[duffer]

Man 8-0 would have been embaressing. Hope Paige's dude ends up winning it, would be so ridiculously funny. Goddamn I hate Rashad but this has been a terrible season for mine.

They're replaying Season 8 over here and the gap in the quality is so so huge. More interesting fighters, fights, Noguiera and Mir miles above as far as coaches and Nog is the biggest dude ever. Last two seasons haven't been great at all, need some more lightweights/welters and coaches who have personalitites and want to coach too.

 

[Majin]

Yeah heard they were going to do Light Heavy's and Welters this season and then ended up changing it to Heavy's at the last minute? I am guessing that is why the cast is full of jumped up light heavy's like Schoonover and the rest.

agree with you about season 8, although that may just be because I am a total Big Nog mark, love him so much. Easily my favourite MMA fighter. Thought he was a gun on that season of tuf, seemed to really care about not only his team but everyone in the house, looked at them as fighters and not people there to garner ratings for a reality tv show. such a gun.

also, are you gonna try and catch Fedor vs Rogers at all? heard it is available for fairly cheap

 

[duffer]

Yeah heard they were going to do Light Heavy's and Welters this season and then ended up changing it to Heavy's at the last minute? I am guessing that is why the cast is full of jumped up light heavy's like Schoonover and the rest.

agree with you about season 8, although that may just be because I am a total Big Nog mark, love him so much. Easily my favourite MMA fighter. Thought he was a gun on that season of tuf, seemed to really care about not only his team but everyone in the house, looked at them as fighters and not people there to garner ratings for a reality tv show. such a gun.

also, are you gonna try and catch Fedor vs Rogers at all? heard it is available for fairly cheap

I'll probably stream/torrent it tbh. Looks like a nice card all over. Haven't seen Mousasi or Werdum for a while and Sokoudjou is always fun to watch. Shields v Miller is probably the most exciting fight on that card though.

 

[Goughy]

Excited for Fedor tonight. Its a pleasure to watch him.

MMA (more than most) allows for upsets so it is possible that Rogers will catch him with a freak punch but just seeing the best fighter in the world at work will make my weekend.

Hopefully show the casual viewer that there is more to MMA than UFC, especially at HW.

 

[duffer]

Apart from Fedor where are all the other top heavys? And heh if you count a drug cheat like Barnett as being legit.

Monson couldn't cut it in the big league and to me Overeem would be eaten up in the UFC. Arlovski, Schitt, Marcio Cru? Heh.

Strikeforce was a great card though. Enjoyed most of it, but tbh pussing out of the UFC has meant that Fedor will never get the mainstream props he deserves. He could have so many incrediby huge fights in the UFC but is settling for never will be's in Strikeforce. Disappointing.

 

[Goughy]

Apart from Fedor where are all the other top heavys? And heh if you count a drug cheat like Barnett as being legit.

Monson couldn't cut it in the big league and to me Overeem would be eaten up in the UFC. Arlovski, Schitt, Marcio Cru? Heh.

Strikeforce was a great card though. Enjoyed most of it, but tbh pussing out of the UFC has meant that Fedor will never get the mainstream props he deserves. He could have so many incrediby huge fights in the UFC but is settling for never will be's in Strikeforce. Disappointing.

Pussing out? FFS. He earns more outside the UFC and the contract UFC offered was borderline criminal. The UFC is not the sport. At the moment Fedor doesnt need the UFC and he can fight all their fighters when they leave (as they invaribly do). Thant may change in the future but there are still fights outside UFC for him.

His record reads like a list of 'UFC Whos Who'. He is a killer of UFC champs. He has ducked noone.

 

[duffer]

I never said UFC was the sport. I've even bemoaned the fact that a lot of people think that way.

I'm not going to pretend I was privy to the contract negotiations between Fedor and the UFC but I highly doubt they would have been financially derisory in any offer they made to him.

And where are these top fights outside the UFC for him btw? I see you dodged that question.

 

[Goughy]

I never said UFC was the sport. I've even bemoaned the fact that a lot of people think that way.

I'm not going to pretend I was privy to the contract negotiations between Fedor and the UFC but I highly doubt they would have been financially derisory in any offer they made to him.

And where are these top fights outside the UFC for him btw? I see you dodged that question.

The money issue is there and has ben talked about. However, the biggest issue was that no matter how many fight contract Fedor signed he could not leave the UFC as long as he won. Basically if he signed a 3 fight deal and was HW champ after that then he would still have to fight in UFC. If he won that then again and so on forever. Im not going to compare it to slavery but it was a completly onesided contract unfair on the fighter (especialy one that likes freedom). Even if he didnt want to, Fedor would have had to stay in the UFC even if his contract had expired. No way he could sign that contract even if his contract with M-1 allowed it (UFC requires 100% ownership of its fighters). He would also have been forced to stop Sambo which is his passion (though I dont think that would be such a bad decision.

You may not rate Overeem but that will be a big fight that would sell. Fedor would win but the new UberOvereem would at least draw attention and he is Strikeforce Champ.

A tune up to that probably will be Fabricio Werdum. He isnt an elite guy but is a good fighter and has a storyline in that he beat Fedors brother. Im not going to get overly excited by this fight but it is a legit fight.

Obviously I dont think it will happen but Fedor/Barnett is still the biggest fight on the planet (Lesnar excluded) based on history, records and achievments.

I would watch a fight with Bobby Lashley and it would be a big fight in a year or so. I dont think it is a great fight but it is more intriguing that much of what the UFC could offer.

The only reason there may be a shortage of people to fight outside the UFC is that Fedor has beat all the big names and almost ended their careers.

UFC offers 2 interesting fights to the fans. Brock (who is seemingly out for a long time) and Couture (which I think would get masive sales but there is only 1 possible winner).

If he wins 2 fights then what? Retire? He wouldnt be allowed to under the terms of the last contract offer.

Before fighting anyone else Id like to see Lesnar him fight Carwin. Lesnar still has a record that dosnt have him face a powerful striker.

What are the other options in UFC for Fedor. Fight 2nd tier guys that are similar outside the UFC? fight washed up Pride fighters that he already beat their prime? Fight up-an-commers with no real wins on their record?

 

[duffer]

Not going to go into the contract stuff because it's all speculation. Suffice to say I can't have seen White and Fertita going into negotiations with arguably the top fighter in the world and offering him any less than what they are giving to their current top guys.

-Overeem has never drawn huge in his life. He's more of a mainstream black hole than Fedor is and has a stack of losses whenever he comes up against semi-decent opposition. A lot of UFC heavies better than him imo and far better known.

-Werdum. Decent fight, has only got one good win on his record and was embaressed by one of the UFC up and comers in dos Santos. Once agai I think there ar ebigger and better in the UFC.

-Barnett just can't be seen as credible imo. He has skills but has been shown up to be a complete fraud and I don't see a credible promotion in North America touchig him.

-Lashley is an interesting guy but he is nowhere near the level of most UFC guys and has beaten complete mehs so far. Then you also have him re-signing with TNA just recently and there's no way you can put him on the radar for a guy as good as Fedor.

-Which of the current top UFC guys has he faced and beaten badly? He beat Big Nog and Herring but other than that who? Sobral could never hack it against the top UFC guys. Sylivia and Arlovski were both awesome wins though.

- He hasn't faced most of the contenders in the UFC and all the fights would draw a lot bigger than Werdum, Lashley or Overeem. Lesnar, Mir, Kongo, Velasquez, Carwin, JDS are all excellent competition and would all draw bigger than the guys you mentioned so I do believe he has taken the soft option, if he truly wanted the top comeptition he would be in the UFC right now.

 

[Goughy]

Cheick Kongo?
Listen: that is the sound on the barrel being scraped.

Velasquez and Carwin are products of the UFC system without a quality win between them. They may be interesting but they are nothing more than unproven prospects brought through a UFC system devoid of talent.

Mir is an above average fighter. Blessed by being marketable and being in the right place at the right time. Im not knocking him as he has done well but he isnt scaring anyone.

Christ, we are still seeing a washed up Crocop being marketed.

The only respectable Heavies in UFC are Big Nog (possibly washed up and Fedor has been there and done that more than once) the rest are not at that level (as Lashley isnt right now).

Christ, Kongo has a loss to Gilbert Yvel and we have not even mentioned him as a Heavy outside UFC. Mir has lost to small town promotion fighters and Velasquez and Carwin have never fought anyone. They will continue to look great fighting in the anorexic UFC heavyweight division.

 

[duffer]

Barrel scraping is when Lashley, a drug cheat and an overrated Brit are your best contenders for Fedor.

EDIT: Never said the UFC had a strong division, just don't see many quality heavyweights anywhere and the UFC has the best of said chaff.

 

[King Pietersen]

He earns more outside the UFC and the contract UFC offered was borderline criminal.

He would also have been forced to stop Sambo which is his passion (though I dont think that would be such a bad decision.

You may not rate Overeem but that will be a big fight that would sell. Fedor would win but the new UberOvereem would at least draw attention and he is Strikeforce Champ

Criminal? You confusing the more recent contract negotiations with the ones from 2007? It was reported that Fedor could have made $30million from a 6 fight deal with the UFC. That's not guaranteed pay, but a prediction when predicted PPV revenue is taken into consideration. If that's borderline criminal, then I'd like to know where Strikeforce are getting their money from. They surely can't be paying Fedor more than $5million a fight?

He wouldn't have been forced to stop Sambo. Dana said that if Fedor signed he would be free to compete in Sambo competitions iirc.

You think the Fedor-Overeem fight's actually going to happen? I thought it was blatently obvious that Overeem's ducking fighting in the US because of the steroids he's fairly clearly been taking whilst in Japan. I don't think there's anyway you can go from lanky 205lb'er to massive heavyweight in 3 years without some 'help'. I severely doubt that Overeem would get passed a drugs test. Only a matter of time before he relinquishes the Strikeforce belt and it's left to Fedor, Rogers and Werdum to fight for the title. Not exactly depth in the division that. I'd much rather see Fedor fight Lesnar, Mir, Nog, Velasquez, Carwin, Dos Santos and Couture than Rogers again or Werdum.

I don't see it happening though, it's fairly clear that M-1 and Emelianenko will not agree to an exclusive UFC contract, simply because it doesn't provide the countries where Fedor's popular a good chance to see the fight. I just wish the UFC would just agree to Co-Promote with M-1, probably wouldn't be a bad thing for them as they'd get some exposure in Russia and places where they're yet to explore. It won't happen though. Fedor's going to end his career fighting similar level fighters to the ones he's been fighting since Cro Cop in 2005.

Loved the UFC 105 Countdown show last night. Really looking forward to an event that I thought would suck. Couture-Vera should be an exciting fight, that I hope won't be a dull 15 minutes of Randy laying on Brandon, but it's quite possible that it could happen like that. Bisping-Kang will be an exciting battle between 2 guys that need to stamp their name on the UFC. For Bisping he needs a win after the devestating Hendo KO, and Kang could really improve his name with the UFC fans if he pulls off an impressive victory.

Hardy-'One Trick' () is going to be a real war I hope, and could be fight of the night unless Pearson-Riley is the war I'm hoping for. I'd love to see Hardy win, as he seems like a brilliant bloke. He's made me laugh more in the build up for this fight than anyone for a little while. Be a real career boost for him to win, but I don't see how he'd get passed GSP.

Wilks-Brown will be a good fight. Wilks looked awesome against twatty DaMarques in the TUF Finale, and I hope for a similarly impressive performance against Brown. He'll need it, Brown's no mug. Hopefully Wilks will get the fight to the ground, where I expect him to have a solid advantage over the blue belt Brown. Going to be a good fight I reckon.

Pearson-Riley has the potential for FOTN I think. Pearson's going to stand and throw down with Riley, and I expect Riley to be happy to do the same. We didn't see the best of Ross Pearson against Andre Winner, with alot of the fight spent clinched against the cage, but I expect him to open up and show his worth in this fight. It's going to be a real battle. I can't wait. My predictions are as follows:

MAIN CARD

* Randy Couture vs. Brandon Vera
* Dan Hardy vs. Mike Swick
* Michael Bisping vs. Denis Kang
* Matt Brown vs. James Wilks
* Ross Pearson vs. Aaron Riley

I'd like to place my faith in Hardy and Pearson, but I'm not sure about their fights. I think it's a very difficult card to predict though, alot of these fights are seriously close. The one I'm most confident in is Couture-Vera, just so long as Couture uses his wrestling to good effect, and doesn't get caught standing by Vera's solid Muay Thai.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Take this with a grain of salt, but Meltzer is usually pretty reliable:

Brock Lesnar is in extremely bad shape and there are questions as to whether he will ever fight again.
Lesnar, 32, is in far worse shape than he has been letting on. He went to Canada last week to try to get some rest, collapsed, and was rushed to the hospital. He has mono and also something else that he doesn't want to get out, and all we now is that he does not have cancer and he does not have AIDS. It is, however, extremely serious and he will not be fighting again for a long, long time, if he is able to fight again.
Dana White is heading to Minnesota tonight and will be working to get Lesnar to the Mayo Clinic or equivalent medical facility for treatment.
Also, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira has a staph infection and his fight with Cain Velasquez at UFC 108 is off. Nogueira will need an IV to hopefully get the infection out. He is also in bad shape.
With Lesnar out indefinitely, Shane Carwin will be undergoing knee surgery, so he will not be available to face Velasquez at UFC 108.
We can also report that Shane McMahon had a meeting at the UFC offices recently. Dana White, when asked for more information, responded, "No comment."

Horrible news if true.

 

[Goughy]

Take this with a grain of salt, but Meltzer is usually pretty reliable:



Horrible news if true.

Yeah, now confirmed. Hope it isnt long term or related to the obvious easy conclusion to jump to

 

[Majin]

Yeah real bad news for Brock, hopefully everything will get sorted out and we'll see him again but sounds like it'll be a long while yet. I wonder if they're going to have an Interim champ in the meantime? Guess we'll hear more as it comes out.

Though, I am kind of intrigued about Shane O'Mac meeting with Dana, he's been a big MMA fan for a long while, would be very interesting to see what that was all about considering how much crap they love to give "fake wrestling." I'd guess it'd be something along the lines of Shane's experience with Global TV distribution and event booking but who knows.

Anyway, Just got finished watching 105 and was a pretty good time overall I thought.

Really happy for Ross Pearson, have been a fan of his since TUF and he got an awesome win last night against a pretty tough opponent. I loved everything he did, mixed up his strikes really well, when he got the clinch he was aggressive as hell and just went for it all out, if he wasn't kneeing he was punching the body, uppercuts to the head, releasing the clinch and elbowing on the way out into more punch combinations, Riley got messed up.

Gutted for Wilks but Brown got a deserved win, pretty much in control of the entire fight aside from when Wilks had him in the sub attempts near the end of the third.

Bisping/Kang was a pretty entertaining fight, pretty hilarious to hear the commentators going on about how Bisping wouldn't be circling into Kangs right only for him to get dropped on his ass by it about 20 seconds later. But his work from the bottom was good to stay out of danger for the most part and then he did well to swarm on Kang and finish in the second. Not entirely convincing imho but it was a good performance. Be interesting to see who they throw him in with next at any rate.

Hardy/Swick was awesome, so happy that Hardy won that fight. Bit of a clinchfest at times but when they threw hands it was good stuff and it was interesting to see the difference between the two, most of the time Hardy just walked through all of Swicks shots even though he was landing clean, and then the little glances from Hardy had Swick all over the place. Nothing to suggest anything other than GSP slamming his ass all over the cage and destroying him, mind, but well done to him for earning the shot.

Couture/Vera was a close one imho and not the most entertaining fight to watch but you got pretty much what you would have expected from the Natural. I am no fan of Vera's but I thought he'd done enough to win it with the knockdown and the damage done as well as getting the mount in the 3rd but, well, everyone pretty much knows what to think about MMA judging at the moment and I can understand why they gave this one to Couture.

 

[Majin]

Update: Licensed Parisyan Out of UFC 106

I am a heartbroken man

 

[King Pietersen]

The guy's apparently got an addiction to painkillers, and he needs to be given the best help possible to get him clean. I like Dana White alot, he says some silly things at times, but from his Vlog's and random interviews he seems like a quality bloke, but I don't agree with the UFC just dumping Parisyan. It was fair enough with Junie Browning, as he actually had a mental breakdown and assaulted people, but Karo's pulled out of 2 fights, and although they've both been on short notice, the UFC could surely be lenient given his situation?!

I'd like to see Dana and the UFC step up and try and help Karo get into rehab and get professional help, if the addiction to painkillers is in fact the reason for him pulling out. He's a seriously talented fighter, and he's been so unlucky with injuries. He could have had a title fight against Matt Hughes at UFC 68 but injuries stopped that going ahead, and he's never really recovered, only fighting twice in the last 2 years.

Be interesting to see how Karo Parisyan's career goes in the next 2 years. Whether he decides to try and get himself fixed up, or just packs it in all together. I hope he tries to sort himself out. Be a massive waste of talent if he doesn't.