England's Preliminary CT squad

[Richard]

However much potential they have (and I'm far from convinced about that of either), Rashid is currently no good whatsoever at it and Denly moderate at best. Bresnan is quite clearly never going to be a ODI-standard bowler and will merely prove the latest addition to a massive line of England bowlers who've been picked because the latest attempt at a rabbit out of the hat has failed to produce the goods. While candidates who might have a ghost of a chance of being decent-ish are ignored.

 

[aussie]

However much potential they have (and I'm far from convinced about that of either), Rashid is currently no good whatsoever at it and Denly moderate at best.

Based on his bowling in the T20 WC it would be inaccurate to say Rashid is no good.

Bresnan is quite clearly never going to be a ODI-standard bowler and will merely prove the latest addition to a massive line of England bowlers who've been picked because the latest attempt at a rabbit out of the hat has failed to produce the goods. While candidates who might have a ghost of a chance of being decent-ish are ignored.

That may very well & prove to be the case with Bresan, even if he is more improved bowled than the one uncle Sanath slaughtered in 06. But i fail to see behind Fred/Jimmy/Sidebottom/Broad which other seamer on the county circuit would be a better pick in the ODI set-up.

 

[Richard]

Based on his bowling in the T20 WC it would be inaccurate to say Rashid is no good.

Based on nothing Twenty20 will any meaningful OD case ever be made. Bowling in 20-over cricket is completely different to bowling in OD cricket.

That may very well & prove to be the case with Bresan, even if he is more improved bowled than the one uncle Sanath slaughtered in 06. But i fail to see behind Fred/Jimmy/Sidebottom/Broad which other seamer on the county circuit would be a better pick in the ODI set-up.

Mascarenhas for a start. He's even a better batsman as well. Heck, Jamie Dalrymple is a better OD bowler than Bresnan, and certainly a better batsman. Never mind Ian Blackwell, who's probably, slightly, a better batsman too.

Probably all better than Anderson, who's also a poor ODI bowler and always has been. Been disguised a bit once again in the last couple of series' though.

 

[tooextracool]

Anderson constantly making it to the ODI squads and starting XI's is pitiful to be honest. However, the problem is that outside of Sidebottom, Broad, and Flintoff ( 2 of which are injured more often than not) there is no better strike bowling option in England. Mascarenhas is not a worthy replacement considering that he simply cant take wickets and a bowling record of 11 wickets @ 48.72 and SR of 4.58 hardly shouts out for his selection either.

 

[superkingdave]

Davies (playing as a batsman) would have been a better ODI opening option than Denly at the moment. He's had 3 successive decent seasons, and scores at a faster rate than Denly.

Of course if Denly's not been picked as an opener, his selection is even more stupid.

 

[Richard]

Come on, England picking middle-order batsmen to open (Bopara) while an opener bats in the middle-order isn't remotely unusual. Stupid decisions are barely even a disappointment any more, never mind a surprise.

 

[Richard]

Anderson constantly making it to the ODI squads and starting XI's is pitiful to be honest. However, the problem is that outside of Sidebottom, Broad, and Flintoff ( 2 of which are injured more often than not) there is no better strike bowling option in England. Mascarenhas is not a worthy replacement considering that he simply cant take wickets and a bowling record of 11 wickets @ 48.72 and SR of 4.58 hardly shouts out for his selection either.

If England honestly do want wicket-taking bowlers, regardless of how expensive they are, they might do well to go for someone who has actually taken stacks of wickets at county level, rather than someone who cosmetically looks like a wicket-taker (eg, Sajid Mahmood). There's no-one better for that than Graham Napier, and he even has the "he's a big hitter" mantra as well. Napier has proven far, far better at taking one-day wickets than Anderson, all career. Mark Chilton, a batsman (who apparently doesn't even bowl any more), has a lower OD strike-rate for Lancashire than Anderson.

Me, I can't help but feel Napier is a golden-arm bowler who wouldn't get wickets at ODI level, but then again I can never fathom how he keeps on and on and on getting them at domestic level either. He'd certainly be a better bet, if you want wicket-taking rather than economy, than anyone else in the country.

 

[aussie]

Based on nothing Twenty20 will any meaningful OD case ever be made. Bowling in 20-over cricket is completely different to bowling in OD cricket.

Yes there is no comparison. But what i took from his T20 performances was that in pressure situations the young bloke has some ticker. He doesn't come across as another useless ODI pick at all.

Mascarenhas for a start. He's even a better batsman as well. Heck, Jamie Dalrymple is a better OD bowler than Bresnan, and certainly a better batsman. Never mind Ian Blackwell, who's probably, slightly, a better batsman too.

I was talking about back-up pacers. I dont think Bresnan & Dimi would have been battling for a spot. Dimi should have been picked ahead of Wright without a doubt.

Probably all better than Anderson, who's also a poor ODI bowler and always has been. Been disguised a bit once again in the last couple of series' though.

Ha, well you know our views on Anderson the ODI bowler have stark ideological differences. So i wont dig up any old debate here..

 

[aussie]

Mascarenhas is not a worthy replacement considering that he simply cant take wickets and a bowling record of 11 wickets @ 48.72 and SR of 4.58 hardly shouts out for his selection either.

Mascarenhas strenght as ODI bowler is not one who is going to be wicket-taking though. As he should in the last ODI vs WI in Barbados earlier this year, if the new ball bowler make inroads into the top-order. Dimi is the perfect bowler to come in tie down & end.

Plus the potential value he gives as a batsman, ENG aren't in a position to leave him out especially when they still picking Wright for some reason.

 

[Richard]

Yes there is no comparison. But what i took from his T20 performances was that in pressure situations the young bloke has some ticker. He doesn't come across as another useless ODI pick at all.

Having some ticker in high-intensity situations is useless without ability, and right now Rashid does not have much ability as far as bowling in one-day cricket is concerned. A spinner needs 1) accuracy; 2) a keen eye for what the batsman is up to as he's about to bowl and a sense of anticipation for what he's going to do before he bowls and 3) one of two from a) bowling fast and flat and b) turning it lots. Rashid has none of the aforementioned.

I was talking about back-up pacers. I dont think Bresnan & Dimi would have been battling for a spot. Dimi should have been picked ahead of Wright without a doubt.

Dimi should be one of the first seamers on the teamsheet. Full-stop. Simple as. Ideally he'd bowl most of his overs in the non-Powerplay 10-40-over period, but he is capable of bowling in Powerplays on non-rank-road pitches.

 

[marc71178]

Mascarenhas strenght as ODI bowler is not one who is going to be wicket-taking though. As he should in the last ODI vs WI in Barbados earlier this year, if the new ball bowler make inroads into the top-order. Dimi is the perfect bowler to come in tie down & end.

And on the 90% of times that this doesn't happen he's a complete waste of time, hence he shouldn't be picked.

No team wins ODIs without taking wickets, it's the best way to stop the batting team from scoring.

 

[aussie]

Having some ticker in high-intensity situations is useless without ability, and right now Rashid does not have much ability as far as bowling in one-day cricket is concerned. A spinner needs 1) accuracy; 2) a keen eye for what the batsman is up to as he's about to bowl and a sense of anticipation for what he's going to do before he bowls and 3) one of two from a) bowling fast and flat and b) turning it lots. Rashid has none of the aforementioned.

Well his leg-spin aint no Shane Warne. But if he didn't have some accuracy or point 2, he wouldn't have been so impressive in the world T20. He stepped up on the world-stage. The little i saw of him before in county matches on Sky, i was very annoyed when he was drafted into the T20 squad. So i dont mind him being fast-tracked TBH.

Dimi should be one of the first seamers on the teamsheet. Full-stop. Simple as. Ideally he'd bowl most of his overs in the non-Powerplay 10-40-over period, but he is capable of bowling in Powerplays on non-rank-road pitches.

Cant agree he is would make the first XI in the best ENG ODI XI.

Strauss
?
KP
Shah
Colly
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Sidebottom

He would challenge with Sidebottom for a spot depending on conditions i guess.

 

[aussie]

And on the 90% of times that this doesn't happen he's a complete waste of time, hence he shouldn't be picked.

No team wins ODIs without taking wickets, it's the best way to stop the batting team from scoring.

Well if you want to be so harsh. Outside Flintoff no other bowler is can ENG guarantee will always take wickets in ODIs. All of Anderson/Broad/Swann will have their moments, Mascarenhas should always be in the ODI squad - even if not an automatic starter.

 

[Richard]

And on the 90% of times that this doesn't happen he's a complete waste of time, hence he shouldn't be picked.

No team wins ODIs without taking wickets, it's the best way to stop the batting team from scoring.

Over-simplistic notion, founded on the misunderstanding that wickets = economy and economy |= wickets. In fact the reverse is true. Wickets don't (in themselves) cause an acceptably slow scoring-rate, but an acceptably slow scoring-rate does cause wickets.

 

[Richard]

Well his leg-spin aint no Shane Warne. But if he didn't have some accuracy or point 2, he wouldn't have been so impressive in the world T20. He stepped up on the world-stage. The little i saw of him before in county matches on Sky, i was very annoyed when he was drafted into the T20 squad. So i dont mind him being fast-tracked TBH.

Rashid isn't a clueless spraygun, but his accuracy is nowhere near the standards required for ODIs, else his domestic OD economy-rate wouldn't be so high.

Cant agree he is would make the first XI in the best ENG ODI XI.

Strauss
?
KP
Shah
Colly
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Sidebottom

He would challenge with Sidebottom for a spot depending on conditions i guess.

Would have him ahead of Anderson any time. Anderson goes for runs and doesn't take wickets; Mascarenhas doesn't take wickets and only tends to go for runs on rank roads.

 

[Prince EWS]

Denly is a terrible pick. One of the most over-rated one day batsmen of all time and he hasn't even played an ODI yet.

 

[FBU]

. UIMM, Mark Chilton, a batsman (who apparently doesn't even bowl any more), has a lower OD average for Lancashire than Anderson.

.

For Lancs
Chilton 27 wickets at 25.03 econ 5.68 s/r 26.40
Anderson 66 wickets at 21.78 econ 4.29 s/r 30.4

 

[superkingdave]

 

[Richard]

For Lancs
Chilton 27 wickets at 25.03 econ 5.68 s/r 26.40
Anderson 66 wickets at 21.78 econ 4.29 s/r 30.4

Well, Chilton's strike-rate is better, so he's more of a wicket-taker...

 

[vic_orthdox]

If England honestly do want wicket-taking bowlers, regardless of how expensive they are, they might do well to go for someone who has actually taken stacks of wickets at county level, rather than someone who cosmetically looks like a wicket-taker (eg, Sajid Mahmood). There's no-one better for that than Graham Napier, and he even has the "he's a big hitter" mantra as well. Napier has proven far, far better at taking one-day wickets than Anderson, all career. Mark Chilton, a batsman (who apparently doesn't even bowl any more), has a lower OD strike-rate for Lancashire than Anderson.

Me, I can't help but feel Napier is a golden-arm bowler who wouldn't get wickets at ODI level, but then again I can never fathom how he keeps on and on and on getting them at domestic level either. He'd certainly be a better bet, if you want wicket-taking rather than economy, than anyone else in the country.

What did Chilton bowl in his prime?

Last year, he was bowling off about half a dozen steps, with the keeper up to the stumps. Very slow medium stuff, talking 110km/h stuff.