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*Official* Fourth Test at Headingley

Uppercut

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On the flipside of this, one of the things the likes of the Aussies do so much better than this is their unwillingness to accept defeat. Look at how they came back after, yes, the 2005 Ashes. They went and crushed everyone before them to try and erase the pain of that defeat. Look at what they did in South Africa after losing a series at home for the first time in forever.

We don't have a god-given right to beat anyone or be good, but I think our teams accept that all too easily at times. There is nothing at all wrong with seeking out success and not being happy with what may be perceived as relative success.

To use a similar analogy, when the mighty whites got to the brink of the Prem, do you think when we lost a third play-off semi in a row I thought to myself, "ah well, we have crowds of 8,000 and no right to get this high up so we've done well really," no did I ****, I cried for 3 days
Well if you'd gone up you wouldn't have criticised everyone to **** for not qualifying automatically. Nor would you have ignored your perfectly good success and continued to bore the world incessantly by droning on and on and on about something Tranmere did in the 60s before you were born.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
No but I have bored my brother for 15 years with tales of Morrisey & Nevin from before he was born :p
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
A giant middle finger to the boozed up bogans who pass off as English fans.
Ah, lectures in crowd behaviour from Australians whose chosen way of communicating is to raise "a giant middle finger". Nice one. Ranks up there with Ricky Ponting sermonising about the Spirit of Cricket.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Completely agree with this, there is something very stupid with the bizarre mentality the majority seem to hold when measuring success.
Nah, it's just not true. The tabloids do whip up the nationliastic fervour, but there's no way we can be happy with what our national team has done. How many of the really big teams have we beaten in finals tournaments? I can think of about three going back to '66: Holland in '96 (who qualified anyway), Germany in 2000 (when neither of us qualified) & Argentina in 2002 thanks to a Mickey Owen dive.

It's not unrealistic to expect more.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Completely agree with this, there is something very stupid with the bizarre mentality the majority seem to hold when measuring success.
Success for England is being number 1. It is all relative and England are not Albania, they are whether you like it or not, 'powerhouses' in cricket, rugby and football.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Let the team do something first. Then the fans shall follow.
Well yes, that's the attitude that a fair weather fan might adopt.

You can say what you like about the Barmy Army (and there's plenty to criticise them for), they do everything that is humanly possible to lift the spirits of the team that they're supporting. And they deserve eternal credit for doing just that when their team is up against it and are in need of precisely that lift.
 

Uppercut

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It's not that it's wrong as such, but why should we be happy with mediocrity? Compare our record to countries of similar populace/resources (Spain, Italy, France, Germany). It's not realisitic to expect us to win every tournament, but 4 semis ever (three lost) is disgraceful.
Mediocrity? Since when is being the fifth best country in a world of 200 mediocrity? Losing a quarter-final to Brazil by the odd flukey goal, being knocked out on penalties by a world-class Portugal side, that's competing with the best and it's so, so far from mediocrity.

But in your heads it's mediocrity. "Woe is us, how mediocre we are."
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Mediocrity? Since when is being the fifth best country in a world of 200 mediocrity? Losing a quarter-final to Brazil by the odd flukey goal, being knocked out on penalties by a world-class Portugal side, that's competing with the best and it's so, so far from mediocrity.

But in your heads it's mediocrity. "Woe is us, how mediocre we are."
It is when your players are the best paid in the world.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Did you watch the last WC? There is no way we were anything but mediocre. And we never qualified for the Euros. Mediocre, for sure.

Again, as I say. Sure, we might perform better than a lot of other nations. But that doesn't mean we should be happy about it.
 

Pigeon

Banned
Ah, lectures in crowd behaviour from Australians whose chosen way of communicating is to raise "a giant middle finger". Nice one. Ranks up there with Ricky Ponting sermonising about the Spirit of Cricket.
I am not Aussie, I in fact support England. But could not help that one out. I think some of the fans just went overboard by the likes of booing Ponting etc. That section truly deserved this slapping.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Nah, it's just not true. The tabloids do whip up the nationliastic fervour, but there's no way we can be happy with what our national team has done. How many of the really big teams have we beaten in finals tournaments? I can think of about three going back to '66: Holland in '96 (who qualified anyway), Germany in 2000 (when neither of us qualified) & Argentina in 2002 thanks to a Mickey Owen dive.

It's not unrealistic to expect more.
How many times since 1990 have we gone out to a team (in the football anyway) to a team of lesser ability than our own, barring the fiasco in 1992 and a dreadful display in 2000 I would say none. Like it or not, there comes a time when you just have to admit, that your team, good as they may be, are just not quite good enough, as has been the case on pretty much every occasion I can think of. It's not a case of being a horrible failure, it's just being beaten by a team who are generally better. You say that England should have beaten big teams, but why is that? The national team have done nothing to suggest that they are capable of doing so, so why get upset when they fail? I agree that it's frustrating, but to harp out on about "Major dissapointments" after being edged out by a better team in a number of very close games just irks me. You really do get the feeling that there is a sense of "we have a divine right to win tournaments" amongst a lot of fans, somewhat illogically.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Mediocrity? Since when is being the fifth best country in a world of 200 mediocrity? Losing a quarter-final to Brazil by the odd flukey goal, being knocked out on penalties by a world-class Portugal side, that's competing with the best and it's so, so far from mediocrity.

But in your heads it's mediocrity. "Woe is us, how mediocre we are."
Check out Portugal's population. Why are they world class and us not? & ****ing Greece won in 2002. Greece! It's relative, we are one of the biggest footballing nations in the world, but as I keep saying we're comfortably the worst of them. We should be beating the likes of Portugal and Croatia with plenty to spare.

Are you suggesting we should be happy with the occasional quarter-final? To me that is settling for mediocrity.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
How many times since 1990 have we gone out to a team (in the football anyway) to a team of lesser ability than our own, barring the fiasco in 1992 and a dreadful display in 2000 I would say none. Like it or not, there comes a time when you just have to admit, that your team, good as they may be, are just not quite good enough, as has been the case on pretty much every occasion I can think of. It's not a case of being a horrible failure, it's just being beaten by a team who are generally better. You say that England should have beaten big teams, but why is that? The national team have done nothing to suggest that they are capable of doing so, so why get upset when they fail? I agree that it's frustrating, but to harp out on about "Major dissapointments" after being edged out by a better team in a number of very close games just irks me. You really do get the feeling that there is a sense of "we have a divine right to win tournaments" amongst a lot of fans, somewhat illogically.
See my response to Uppercut. We should be beating Portugal with plenty to spare. & it can't be accidental we keep losing on penalties, taking them is a skill that can be worked on.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Check out Portugal's population. Why are they world class and us not? & ****ing Greece won in 2002. Greece! It's relative, we are one of the biggest footballing nations in the world, but as I keep saying we're comfortably the worst of them. We should be beating the likes of Portugal and Croatia with plenty to spare.

Are you suggesting we should be happy with the occasional quarter-final? To me that is settling for mediocrity.
I would never settle for it, but I think it's naive to expect more, simply because "we are England".

And the reason Portugal etc.. are much better than us, is because the British youth system is simply far inferior to the likes of our continental rivals.
 

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