*Official* Fourth Test at Headingley

[pup11]

Yeah, would agree with Harby, Vettori, Murali, Mendis certainly being better. Haven't seen much of the others so I don't feel like I can comment. Harris maybe?

Shakib and Mishra are certainly better bowlers than Swann, Harris is probably at par with him.

 

[social]

Hauritz spins it more than Swann and has better variation. Now I've heard it all.

Hauritz is more accurate and fortunately for him that's about all that's required against England's batsmen. If Swann had been bowling at England's batsmen and Hauritz at Australia's Hauritz would probably average 100 or so and Swann 20-25.

So why pick Swann if he has no chance?

 

[Richard]

So why pick Swann if he has no chance?

That post had nothing to do whatsoever with the assertion of whether Swann or Hauritz should be playing, and merely everything to do with the frankly ridiculous assertion that Hauritz is a better spinner than Swann.

Let both of them bowl at West Indies day-in-day-out, Swann'll come out on top on about 90% of occasions.

 

[Matt79]

Been impressed with Swann's armball in the last couple of tests - can't recall the last off spinner who effectively used that as a variation, rather than throwing a doosra...

 

[social]

That post had nothing to do whatsoever with the assertion of whether Swann or Hauritz should be playing, and merely everything to do with the frankly ridiculous assertion that Hauritz is a better spinner than Swann.

Let both of them bowl at West Indies day-in-day-out, Swann'll come out on top on about 90% of occasions.

Sorry Richard but it's Eng against Aus in Eng

Swann is averaging NEARLY 60 inthis series because whether away or at home, he is a very average bowler against this Oz batting lineup

Horses for courses and Eng have backed the wrong horse

 

[pup11]

Hauritz spins it more than Swann and has better variation. Now I've heard it all.

Hauritz is more accurate and fortunately for him that's about all that's required against England's batsmen. If Swann had been bowling at England's batsmen and Hauritz at Australia's Hauritz would probably average 100 or so and Swann 20-25.

So why is his FC average 33, shouldn't he be ripping through hapless English batsmen on receptive pitches.

 

[Pigeon]

Spinners since 08 in Tests:

Harbhajan 79 @ 29.46
Vettori 61 @ 29.13
Shakib 48 @ 25.18
Murali 47 @ 28.48
Panesar 45 @ 37.26
Harris 42 @ 38.64
Swann 40 @ 30.92
Mendis 39 @ 25.66
Jeets 23 @ 34.04
Mishra 20 @ 29.65

This would suggest, Harby Vettori Shakib Murali Mendis Mishra are all probably better than Swann. Sounds about right too. Chawla probably is too IMO.

Shakib's figures beggars belief.

 

[social]

Shakib and Mishra are certainly better bowlers than Swann, Harris is probably at par with him.

Not against Australia

Australians traditionally dont like left-armers but they always kill traditional right arm offies in the right conditions (which is what we see in Oz and Eng btw)

Go back a few years and there was an English bowler named John Emburey who IMO was a better bowler than Swann. However, despite the fact that he played largely against a very weak Oz side, he had limited success for the most part

 

[four_or_six]

I've seen his figures, and they're exactly as always. If he's bowled massively worse (which he'd have to have done to be a lesser option than Amjad Khan or Darren Pattinson) then this WOULD be reflected in his figures. No two ways about.

Sorry, Hoggard's exclusion makes zero sense. No plausible, reasonable case can be constructed in favour of it. Unless he's slept with 5 or 6 of the rest of the team's wives.

When I saw him play last summer he was more overweight then Gough, slower on the speed-gun than Gough, and looked completely ineffective. Granted, it was a one-day game, and he's never held them in any regard, but given that performance I could understand why he was no longer playing for England.

 

[Prince EWS]

3. And by far the most important, Oz batsmen LOVE traditional off spinners (I.e. anyone that doesnt have a doosra and they dont have to play in the subcontinent where conditions are completely different)

Doesn't this negate your Hauritz > Swann point a bit though? It's not like Swann has gone through his whole Test career averaging 40 odd or something - you're basing your whole assessment of him on how he's gone against Australia's best six batsmen (and oh how very Australian of you to do so, too). I personally think Hauritz would be averaging about 70 in this series if he was part of England's attack and not Australia's.

Oh, and anyone who talks down Swann's efforts in the West Indies..

• Didn't watch him actually bowl in that series.
• Didn't see how ridiculously flat the pitches were.
• Didn't witness the lack of support he was getting.
• Criminally under-rates Chanderpaul and Sarwan against spin.

He was far, far more impressive than Hauritz has been here in that series on less favourable pitches against a couple of players far more adept at playing spin than England's top order.

 

[Pigeon]

Botha in ODIs with an illegal doosra

Harby in India - check out his record in Oz

Sehwag in India

off spinner doing bad on flat pitches of Aus, shocker

 

[PhoenixFire]

Reckon Cribb is an Englishman in disguise. The highest praise of the lot, WAG.

 

[GIMH]

I've seen his figures, and they're exactly as always. If he's bowled massively worse (which he'd have to have done to be a lesser option than Amjad Khan or Darren Pattinson) then this WOULD be reflected in his figures. No two ways about.

Sorry, Hoggard's exclusion makes zero sense. No plausible, reasonable case can be constructed in favour of it. Unless he's slept with 5 or 6 of the rest of the team's wives.

Couldn't disagree more, thank God the selectors don't make their decisions based on figures alone!!!

 

[aussie]

Headingley if my memory is correct ATM, hasn't swung since Caddick took 4 wickets vs WI in 2000. Its be very flat since.

 

[Prince EWS]

Reckon Cribb is an Englishman in disguise. The highest praise of the lot, WAG.

Haha, well I did pretty much call England's batting crap in that post. Although that's probably an even more English thing to do than sticking up for Swanny.

 

[tooextracool]

Couldn't disagree more, thank God the selectors don't make their decisions based on figures alone!!!

Ask me 365 days in a year, and Id much rather the selectors pick based on figures alone than pick Amjad Khan.

Making selections based upon other factors other than figures is great and all, but that's only assuming that the selectors have the slightest clue about what it takes to succeed at test match cricket which quite frankly they don't.

 

[GIMH]

Headingley if my memory is correct ATM, hasn't swung since Caddick took 4 wickets vs WI in 2000. Its be very flat since.

How did it go in 07? I can't remember for sure, but didn't Sidey swing us to an innings win?

 

[PhoenixFire]

Haha, well I did pretty much call England's batting crap in that post. Although that's probably an even more English thing to do than sticking up for Swanny.

Yeah, to be a true Englishman you need to stick the boot into the team and say how **** they are and then get really defensive if an Australian says the same thing and argue completely the opposite.

 

[aussie]

I was more worried about how Watson looked than they way he bowled - stiff as a friggin' board and an injury waiting to happen

Exaclty, absolutely no energy in his bowling.

Select him as a bat and forget the bowling IMO

I heard on the first day on the radio at a pub, Jim Maxwell saying he spoke to Watson & the impression he got, was that Watto clearly see's himself now as batsman who can bowl a bit. Which overall is very sad for AUS cricket.

Surprising i didn't hear any of the TV commentators mentions this though.

 

[tooextracool]

Headingley if my memory is correct ATM, hasn't swung since Caddick took 4 wickets vs WI in 2000. Its be very flat since.

I'm going to assume that you've missed a lot of cricket at Headingley over this decade then.....