*Official Third Test at Edgbaston

[Uppercut]

Hot and cold can sometimes be useful, though. As long as when you're hot, you're really hot, because that can be a match-turning or match-winning performance.

Yeah, that's true. But I still think Hilfenhaus's consistency is more valuable, it just doesn't look that way because he hasn't been backed up. Consider that Flintoff failed to back Jimmy up at Lord's in the second innings and Australia had chased 500- he'd now be getting untold abuse for his 0/90-odd, with everyone and their granny criticising his inconsistency.

Being part of a winning team makes people go a lot easier on players (it happened to Hilfy himself in South Africa). It takes a conscious effort to judge the players irrespective of their team-mates, but I'd have to go for Hilfenhaus by a whisker.

 

[superkingdave]

Just spoke to someone at our other site near edgbaston ostensibly for something work related, but really to ask about the weather....they said they can't see it raining, but it'll be really good conditions for swing bowling stick a fiver on Jimmy for MOM

Sadly, will be a long day sat at work for me

 

[Uppercut]

Sums Jimmy up IMO

Brilliant when it is swinging, average to rank when it's not

The thing is, how many bowlers are really much use when the ball isn't doing anything for them? I can't actually think of any current bowlers.

 

[Pigeon]

Mike Hussey, Watto - Australia is on the phone - they're looking for heroes. Will you take the call?

If not called collect, I reckon.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

James Anderson is considerably better than Clark at the moment, and I'm hesitant to say how he compares to Lee because he's played so little cricket of late.

This doesn't make sense for mine. They've played almost the exact same amount of cricket recently, and pre-injury were of very similar status in world cricket.

I don't disagree with you, ftr.

 

[social]

The thing is, how many bowlers are really much use when the ball isn't doing anything for them? I can't actually think of any current bowlers.

The standard of pace bowling world-wide is pretty grim at present

Ayway, Jimmy is a conventional swing bowler who moves it very late on his outswinger at good pace. When things go right, he can be awesome

Unfortunately, he's not terribly accurate so when conditions dont suit him, he tends (as Warnie would say) to go the distance more often than not

 

[GIMH]

Yes, I saw him against S.Africa, India and WIndies. He's fine, he's good, but he is not that good. He has improved, but give me a break.

All opinion, I guess, so I disagree.

I mean to keep pulling those numbers.

Well where is the relevance? He plays for England and will therefore play half of his matches in England. This series is being played in England.

I'd say both he and Hilfenhaus have been the best, and Flintoff not far behind. And yet, that's why I have a problem with our bowling line-up. Because neither Jimmy nor Hilfy have bowled remarkably well and that the batting at the same time has hardly been world-class.

And again; Siddle is there for what he could be. He has only played a few tests. He is keeping out Clark and Lee; both who would walk into your side over their current form (last 2-3 years).

I don't get your logic. Siddle wouldn't get into out side I don't reckon, but yet he's keeping out two guy who would? Plus things have changed in England and we're not in the business of picking players for what they did 2-3 years ago anymore (could make an argument for Flintoff, but nobody else), just ask Hoggard & Harmison. So no, I don't think at the minute either of them would walk into our side. Sidebottom can't get near the side at the minute, and he was taking wickets for fun as recently as those two.

Of course the logical and understandable thing for people to say here is, but Stuart Broad! But he's obviously being given a run and backed to come good, and also picked because of his batting as well. So no, I don't think they would walk into our team, actually.

You should pay more attention, instead of getting your feelings hurt and responding to me as if I am blowing everything out of proportion.

I said confidence changes players. The confidence Anderson has currently is helping him bowl better and the lack of confidence some of our green batsmen have is contributing to their downfall. Whilst Anderson is pretty good at the moment, he is no way someone like Waqar Younis who even the best, at their best, will fail against. And it has nothing to do with "shame" but the expectations I, and I know many Australians, have of their batting line-up.

believe me, my feelings aren't hurt

Confidence helps everyone, of course it does, wouldn't disagree with that. Just think that your expectations of your batsmen are stuck back a couple of years ago when you were the undisputed champions of cricket. You've fallen into the pack and you need to deal with it.

 

[Uppercut]

The standard of pace bowling world-wide is pretty grim at present

Ayway, Jimmy is a conventional swing bowler who moves it very late on his outswinger at good pace. When things go right, he can be awesome

Unfortunately, he's not terribly accurate so when conditions dont suit him, he tends (as Warnie would say) to go the distance more often than not

It's an area of his game he's considerably improved on, actually. He rarely gets smashed these days when things aren't going his way. That doesn't mean he's a massively effective bowler, but he's no longer a liability.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, if you look at the stats Ikki posted the most interesting ones are the two Tests in India. Barely took any wickets but went at less than 3 an over, much better than what would have happened previously.

 

[Uppercut]

This doesn't make sense for mine. They've played almost the exact same amount of cricket recently, and pre-injury were of very similar status in world cricket.

I don't disagree with you, ftr.

Yeah, I wasn't very clear. From the little cricket they have played, Clark has shown himself to be a class below Jimmy. Whereas from that same amount of cricket, Lee hasn't really convinced me one way or the other.

 

[Burgey]

2/9 the draw, 10/3 England, 80/1 Australia. No value anywhere there IMO.

Ger on Australia. Will set 180-200 and roll England 20 short. Hauritz 5 for, Johnson 4 for.

happens all the time. Hussey will still get sfa.

 

[Ikki]

Those numbers only accentuate the argument why he should be playing now. His stats in English conditions have been pretty impressive and the blips have both come overseas in terrible conditions for swing bowling.

Or they accentuate the fact that they were NZ and WIndies.

And yes, I do expect our bowlers to try to attain the standard of a McGrath or a Warne although they won't get close. But IMO we should be churning out Jason Gillespie's.

Flintoff the bowler would walk into any team in the world. Saying "we expect our players to be better than that" is arrogance of the highest order. You're living in a bubble, would love to ask the Aussie selectors about this as they are the only ones who can definitively prove to you how stupid you are being about this.

Sure he would. How has he done the past few years? Would you care to even look before you simply spout something based on performances over 5 years ago? Even Flintoff in this series hasn't bowled that well.

Those stats tell you NOTHING.

James Anderson is considerably better than Clark at the moment, and I'm hesitant to say how he compares to Lee because he's played so little cricket of late. Siddle's a good prospect, Hilfenhaus has been excellent so far this series. But James Anderson is really a very, very good bowler. I don't think I can convince you of that but maybe if you lose the Ashes it'll hit home.

GMAFB. He is only good when he can get it swinging. Not that good, I am sorry.

Clark has barely played but a fit Clark > a fit Anderson. You are ridiculously overrating Anderson.

 

[TT Boy]

The thing is, how many bowlers are really much use when the ball isn't doing anything for them? I can't actually think of any current bowlers.

Dale Steyn. Just look at his average in the subcontinent and he always seems to do better when the wicket is flat rather than on a wicket where there is much life - see his chalk and cheese performance at Jo'Burg against Australia to the road at Cape Town.

 

[GIMH]

Sure he would. How has he done the past few years? Would you care to even look before you simply spout something based on performances over 5 years ago? Even Flintoff in this series hasn't bowled that well.

.

Look at what? Stats? Stick em mate, told ya, I watch cricket, not read scorecards. Go make a graph or something, i don't give a **** . I've seen every Test match Freddie has played in the last 6 or 7 years I reckon, whether live, highlights, or whatever. When he came back from injury last summer, straight away the world XI threads in CC had him in there at 8, almost unanimously.

But obviously Australia>>>World XI

 

[Pigeon]

Dale Steyn. Just look at his average in the subcontinent and he always seems to do better when the wicket is flat rather than on a wicket where there is much life - see his chalk and cheese performance at Jo'Burg against Australia to the road at Cape Town.

Steyn is an exception. It is not as if he struggles in swinging conditions. His prior record in SA is ample proof.

 

[TT Boy]

Looks good in Birmingham, Sky cameras were just there and we should start at 11, no problem. Bad light is the real concern but if England are batting this afternoon, it doesn't matter, they will bat regardless.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Interesting that the one-eyed Australian stats monger should chose this match to extoll the virtues of the most mediocre Australian team for 15 years. Especially so considering this match has pretty well summed up why the current crop of players are not that special and there's nothing about them to suggest that they ever will be.

 

[The Sean]

The Aussies always say it about our boys so it is nice to return the favor. This is the worst Aussie team to visit our shores since I started watching cricket.

I dont know what it says about England but it is what it is

Worse than the '85 side?

Can't remember how old you are Kev or how long you've been watching cricket, so disregard if you weren't watching back then.

 

[pasag]

Don't know the stats but memory tells me that Hussey is very poor at the start of the day when n/o overnight, will get bowled early. Clarke on the other hand is very good early on (last Test aside).

 

[TT Boy]

interesting that the one-eyed australian stats monger should chose this match to extoll the virtues of the most mediocre australian team for 15 years. Especially so considering this match has pretty well summed up why the current crop of players are not that special and there's nothing about them to suggest that they ever will be.

+1.