Nathan Hauritz

[social]

Reckon Hauritz could end up being the Giles of 2009. Everyone talking about how crap he is, end up with pretty ordinary figures, but played a role in the side that isn't really represented in figures.

Jack, when are you going to get off your arse and take some wickets?

Spend a year out of the pub, focus and you could end up playing a 100 tests

 

[vic_orthdox]

Jack, when are you going to get off your arse and take some wickets?

Spend a year out of the pub, focus and you could end up playing a 100 tests

Looks like it'll be Dutchy Holland who gets to do that, on an Aus A tour on the back of half a dozen games...

 

[Richard]

The thing about Hauritz's tail-end wickets is, the other three bowlers all had a go at cleaning them up first and didn't manage it. So you can't really say they added nothing to the team cause.

And Anderson played the same way against Hauritz as he did against the rest? No, he played a shot he's completely uncomfortable with, whereas earlier against Johnson he'd been specifically playing to his own strengths.

And don't tell me this is to Hauritz's credit for making Anderson underestimate him - Collingwood etc. were all adament he'd been difficult earlier on.

As for MSP, any fool can get him out. Just needs to be in the right place at the right time, which Hauritz was.

 

[Uppercut]

And Anderson played the same way against Hauritz as he did against the rest? No, he played a shot he's completely uncomfortable with, whereas earlier against Johnson he'd been specifically playing to his own strengths.

And don't tell me this is to Hauritz's credit for making Anderson underestimate him - Collingwood etc. were all adament he'd been difficult earlier on.

As for MSP, any fool can get him out. Just needs to be in the right place at the right time, which Hauritz was.

It's hardly Hauritz's fault Anderson had a brain fart. And as I said in another thread, if Anderson's assault had come off you'd have no hesitation in criticising Hauritz heavily for being smashed by a tail-ender. Yet you refuse to give him an iota of credit when it doesn't.

 

[Richard]

Tail-end wickets are deserved by whichever bowler has the best chance of dismissing the tail, and nothing else. A captain's job is to take the wickets as quickly as possible, not to make sure bowlers end up with certain figures. Freddie, the ****ing best human of all-time, isn't great at cleaning up the tail (in Tests) and so I'd probably give the ball to harmison at that point rather than him if I was skipper. I don't give a **** about who averages what, all wickets need to be taken, nothing else.

Obviously there are occasional circumstances where you want to get the tail off ASAP, but under most circumstances you can afford to wait 4-5 overs longer than you might and let the bowlers have the easy wickets who deserve them. Best way to ensure maximum team harmony, IMO.

As I've said before, one of the biggest reasons Flintoff rarely gets tail-end wickets is because he doesn't get the chance as often as others, having bowled his heart out to grab 2 or 3 vital top-order wickets.

England's tail added 100 yesterday, without that we'd be staring down the barrel. Tailend wickets are not worthless.

Tail-end and lower-order wickets are different things. Swann, Broad and Flintoff are certainly not tailenders; MSP and (even now) Anderson are.

 

[Richard]

It's hardly Hauritz's fault Anderson had a brain fart.

But it doesn't matter whether it's his fault. He hasn't lost due to it; he's gained. Thus, what matters is not fault but credit, and as I say, it's certainly not to his credit; you can argue and I agree with you about Paul Harris in that respect.

And as I said in another thread, if Anderson's assault had come off you'd have no hesitation in criticising Hauritz heavily for being smashed by a tail-ender. Yet you refuse to give him an iota of credit when it doesn't.

That's because dismissing a tailender deserves no credit, and being smashed by one deserves considerable discredit.

Bowling at tailenders is a no-win situation as far as actually doing something useful is concerned, and generally a win-win situation where improving your figures is concerned.

 

[Richard]

You obviously didn't watch that innings. Duminy was doing anything but hit out.

I did. Duminy, like almost any good batsman, realises when he needs to change his game, and when number-eleven is in (especially when that's Makhaya Ntini) is one such time.

You also forget to mention the absolute sitter that Hussey bombed off Hauritz's bowling (the batsmen was Steyn, but it was early in his innings and he went on to get 60 odd).

I certainly didn't forget it - that drop cost Australia Test and series. However, getting Dale Steyn out isn't too important to me when I'm assessing a bowler's credentials.

 

[Richard]

So even Siddle who bowled really well, but didn't pick up the wickets doesn't deserve some wickets at the tail end?

Siddle deserved 'em more than Hauritz did, but all justice would've been done had Hilfenhaus been gifted them. Bowled really well (far better than Siddle, who was a mixture of excellent and nonsense) for moderate rewards. Those two tail-end wickets would've seen his figures do him justice.

 

[Richard]

Reckon Hauritz could end up being the Giles of 2009. Everyone talking about how crap he is, end up with pretty ordinary figures, but played a role in the side that isn't really represented in figures.

Giles played a role by bowling well at Edgbaston and Old Trafford. Other three Tests, he was diabolical. If Hauritz can bowl anywhere near as well as Giles did in those two games I'll be astonished.

And of course with those two innings' at Trent Bridge and The Oval. Had he not played them, England would've lost the series, maybe 3-2 (without the lost play at Old Trafford), and Giles would've been lampooned as the least effective player in a series defeat usually is.

 

[social]

Looks like it'll be Dutchy Holland who gets to do that, on an Aus A tour on the back of half a dozen games...

Lots of opportunities will be given to anyone who shows a hint of ability

Have heard some reasonable things about Holland. What's your view?

 

[wpdavid]

Lots of opportunities will be given to anyone who shows a hint of ability

Have heard some reasonable things about Holland. What's your view?

Excuse me butting in, but is he related to the guy who toured England in 1985?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Hauritz saw KP lunging for the sweep and bowled a wide one? Seriously.

 

[Uppercut]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Hauritz saw KP lunging for the sweep and bowled a wide one? Seriously.

He obviously did, his pitch map all but proves it. Good bowling, but it was still a bloody ridiculous dismissal from KP.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Have heard some reasonable things about Holland. What's your view?

Obviously not seen a lot of him but he looks pedestrian to me. I turn the ball more.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Holland isn't related to Bob.

Gets big dip on the ball, bowls with a lot of overspin and generally I would have thought more mid 80km/h rather than around the 90 mark. Very accurate, and Cricket Australia has big wraps on him, and CV is under a lot of pressure to get games into him. However, Shippherd isn't a big fan of spinners in general, and so when McGain missed out through injury, they rathered go with four quicks and White.

 

[Richard]

Has anyone stopped to consider that Hauritz saw KP lunging for the sweep and bowled a wide one? Seriously.

He obviously did, his pitch map all but proves it. Good bowling, but it was still a bloody ridiculous dismissal from KP.

Ind33d. As the bowler can react to the batsman's premeditation, the batsman can react to the ball and change his mind and pull-out of the premeditated stroke.

Wish Pietersen'd been given lbw when he was plumb so much. Much prefer to see a damn good ball getting a good player out than all the rubbish that's eminated from that terrible shot.

 

[zaremba]

Holland isn't related to Bob.

Gets big dip on the ball, bowls with a lot of overspin and generally I would have thought more mid 80km/h rather than around the 90 mark. Very accurate, and Cricket Australia has big wraps on him, and CV is under a lot of pressure to get games into him. However, Shippherd isn't a big fan of spinners in general, and so when McGain missed out through injury, they rathered go with four quicks and White.

Loving the use of "rather" as a verb

 

[morgieb]

I reckon Jack McNamara would be a better option than Hauritz.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Loving the use of "rather" as a verb

'Twas late.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

He obviously did, his pitch map all but proves it. Good bowling, but it was still a bloody ridiculous dismissal from KP.

Never said anything to the contrary, but people (Brumby in particular) calling it a rank wide etc etc when he obviously bowled it as a reaction to Pietersen's idiocy.