wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
Johnson, Lee, Clark and Siddle are arguably the best bowling attack in the world at the moment. Add Watson to the mix aswell.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Brendon McCullum
- Thread starter Howsie
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It was. WAS being the key word.Thought this thread was about Brendon McCullum, tbh
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
No he wasn't. You need to distinguish between "was picked to play Test cricket" and "was good enough to play Test cricket".
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
OK, I really don't have the inclanation to go through every single one of those showing the larger community why precious few would have a hope in hell of Test success - it's enough that most won't even have heard of half of them - so let's leave it at that you apparently really don't have a clue how cricket in other countries works. It seems that not-Aussie = not-good to you, and such types are of course never worth bothering with.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
I've seen how cricket works in other countries because I've played within' the same grade clubs as English country cricketers who come over to Australia during the off-season. They are good 1st grade cricketers, but they are by no means close to making state cricket and don't exactly dominate like you think they would if they were as good as you think they are. Paul Collingwood played Grade Cricket in Australia the year before he was selected to play for England, but never came close to state selection for Victoria, because there were better options out there.
Michael Hussey said it best when you have to be about 60% ontop of your game before you're ready for International cricket in Australian domestic and 80% if you are a county cricketer. His someone who has experienced both domestic competitions and has a much better point of view then what you do.
Stuart Broad & James Anderson have averaged late 30s - early 40's throughout their career, albeit playing in England, which has a reputation for being bowler-friendly. I'm sure atleast a 3rd of the names I listed would do equally as well as Broad & Anderson in a similar situation.
Noble One
International Vice-Captain
I can understand the point you are trying to make. But using Paul Collingwood is a poor example. He dominated for Richmond in the Premier Cricket competition, won the Jack Ryder Medal. Scored something like 600 runs and took a huge bag of wickets at an average close to about 10.
Victoria had no interest in selecting a potential English international cricketer. Had he been Australian I am sure they would have invested Victorian game-time into him.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Of those:
Think you're severely overrating a number of names there, that would probably make Bangladesh and maybe the Windies side at best. Don't reckon Aaron Heal would make any side in international cricket.
Reckon Gerard Denton could have been a Test quality quick if his body had held together long enough. Its arguable that Butterworth would never have gotten a game for his state if it weren't for his batting.
Wise and Rofe don't bring enough to the table with the ball to hide their deficiencies with bat and in the field to get regular games at FC level, let alone Test level. Bird throws, and hasn't ever put together a FC season, ditto ****ley (minus the throwing). Swan has only just put one together, and Hopes isn't penatrative enough on non-Gabba surfaces to earn a spot on a Test team, as one of four bowlers.
Brett Dorey could have gotten games for another country if it all had've come together for him, however it seems as though his card has been marked after some ODI performances. The rest could have played international cricket for other countries, and I'd accept that.
rivera213
U19 Vice-Captain
Jesus christ man.
Are you seriously trying to claim you aren't completely biased with posts like that.
Mitch for sure, but a crocked Lee and Clark and Siddle based on 1 short series?!
-----------------------
To bring it back on topic.
Does anyone think McCullum will hang up his gloves and be a specialist batsman?
I think he may suggest it to the NZ cricket board to which they'll reply "you're too good as WK".
tooextracool
International Coach
Imran Tahir is a Pakistani leg spinner who isn't qualified to play for England
By the time the Headingley test rolled around Woakes had played a sum total of 3 games for the season and 6 FC games his whole career with figures of 2/64, 3/30, 2/33, 5/59,2/59, 0/26. If there is anything worse than picking a 29 year old with little FC experience, its picking a 19 year old with half as much experience.
Thorp is 33 years old and Australian, dont think hes ever been considered a prospect for England.
Ryan Mclaren is not qualified to play for England.
James Tomlinson has a horrible FC record.
Davies was injured around this time, and has barely managed to put together one fully fit season in his entire career.
Chapple was 34 and his career for England is well over.
That leaves Harmison, Kabir Ali, Hoggard and Jones (the latter 2 I have added because they were either in with a genuine shout or should have been in with a shout for a place in the side).
Harmison as we all know has and continues to be in and out of the side like a paying guest, and his inclusion at the time would probably have been greeted with as much grief from the public at the time given that he had only just been dropped during the winter.
Jones, according to some sources, was who Vaughan wanted to have in the side at the time, but Moores was against which led to the rift and the eventual resignation of Vaughan. However, Jones hadn't prove his fitness over a longish period.
Hoggard and Ali should have been in the side ahead of Pattinson, that is something that was patently obvious at the time and I stated as such around then as well. But as you can see, Pattinson's selection is far from the 'worst ever selection' as people seem to make it out to be.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
That's the point though. Tomlinson was hopeless for years and just had a good season in 2008... Pattinson, on the other hand, was nothing for years and just had a good handful of games in 2008.
If you were going to make such a left-field pick as to give someone a go based on a good half-season, the least that could've been done was to pick someone who had been playing long-ish term, not someone who was 30 and had essentially never played.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
In reality England between 2002 and 2006 was less seam-friendly than Australia; or at worst comparable. Outdated stereotypes don't alter that.
You don't seem to understand either that one season playing in a grade competition means roughly zilch. If players played season on season, as they do in their home country, in Australian cricket, they'd excel. But it takes time to get adjusted. Many Australian grade players of good quality come over to England and - relatively speaking - struggle in one season as an overseas-player at an English club.
You cannot see how cricket in other countries works while your only understanding is based on grade and state cricket in Australia.
Uppercut
Request Your Custom Title Now!
This. None of the players i mentioned were ideal selections, for the reasons TEC stated. But they would generally have had more going for them than Pattinson.
But that's besides the point. My post was just a rebuke of ben's "Pattinson dominated CC" bollocks.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah probably - by all accounts his knees aren't in the best shape.
I'm ok with him giving up the gloves in 20/20 internationals, IPL and any domestic cricket, but he must keep wicket in ODIs and especially tests. Otherwise the team is seriously weakened and McCullum most likely doesn't merit selection for batting alone (definitely not in tests).
Just not sure if NZC and the selectors would have the gonads to make that clear to him though.
He's talented enough to be a test batsman I reckon, his head just goes sometimes it seems.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
This coming from the guy who thinks Tendulkar is better then Bradman. Bias personified.
Out of that foursome, Lee is the weakest bowler at the present, which is saying something and Siddle is going to be the best bowler in the world in a few years time.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
How is it bias personified? An English guy claiming that an Indian has rights to be the considered best player of all time? Don't agree with it, but don't believe that its an opinion based on prejudice.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
Look at his display picture, his obviously an Indian that lives in England.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree. Isn't like they are saying if Tendulkar was around during Bradman's time (and grew up in that era, not current Tendy) he'd be averaging 101 or anything.