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CMJ's top 100

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
But Australia was where Warne learnt his tricks. So he is expected to do well. This comparison is one of the worst I have ever seen.

You compare Warne at home against India vs Murali away vs Australia. Nice logic.
And that is one of the most illogical responses that I have ever seen. It's nothing worse then comparing Warne & Murali in the subcontient against India & Pakistan, despite the fact that Murali learnt his tricks in Sri Lanka (which is in the subcontient), which is what I was responding to.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Please can Murali v Warne bickerings be kept to the relevant thread? If I read another post on this most tedious of topics I will be tempted to take my own eyes out with a rusty power drill just to ease the boredom.
 

bagapath

International Captain
how did CMJ miss out on hayden, crowe and kumble? i dont get it. anyone want to try to explain why these guys and i.chappell, de silva, garner, roberts and sehwag are not good enough to be in the top 100 cricketers of all time. and who the hell is donnelly?
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
how did CMJ miss out on hayden, crowe and kumble? i dont get it. anyone want to try to explain why these guys and i.chappell, de silva, garner, roberts and sehwag are not good enough to be in the top 100 cricketers of all time. and who the hell is donnelly?
Martin Donnelly was a key figure in NZ cricket history - his wisden obituary records CB Fry's assessment that "Donnelly was as good a left-hander as any he had seen, including Clem Hill and Frank Woolley." Check out his cricinfo pen portrait which gives the full obituary. However whether he's a Top 100 cricketer of all time is, of course, debateable. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the Kiwi CWers about him, and about whether he stands higher in NZ cricket history than Martin Crowe.

Of the other great players you've mentioned, Garner is far and away the most glaring omission. He would be close to getting in my all-time World XI, his career record is quite outstanding, and he was an extraordinarily good bowler.

Kumble and Roberts would also definitely get into my Top 100; Crowe and da Silva probably; Hayden and Sehwag maybe; Chapelli definitely not.
 
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zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
you are talking about a guy with 30 test centuries and another one with two triple centuries against quality attacks and who will, in all likelihood, end up with 25 test centuries.
Yes - and that's why they have a chance of getting into my top 100 cricketers of all time.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Kumble and Roberts would also definitely get into my Top 100; Crowe and da Silva probably; Hayden and Sehwag maybe; Chapelli definitely not.
Really? Ian Chappell is certainly not among the top 30-40 batsmen of all-time, but I'd say considering his captaincy (one of the best Australian captains ever and the only man I'd put definitively ahead of him, Richie Benaud, considers him THE best) and his relative revolutionary-ness (far more than that who is often considered, so wrongly, a revolutionary - Kerry Packer) he'd certainly be at worst a contender for any top-100 I did (I'd do such a thing very reluctantly, obviously). Certainly a very significant figure in cricket history.

And this is from someone who really doesn't like him as a commentator at all.
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Sehwag isn't even close to Hayden, but the fact that Sehwag's scored 2 triple centuries is enough to stake a strong claim. Sehwag's almost at the same age as Gilly when Gilly's eyes started to fade on him. Sehwag was never a man of great consistency, but him being so reliant on hand and eye coordination, it's a strong possiblity that we'll be seeing less big knocks from him in the future.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Really? Ian Chappell is certainly not among the top 30-40 batsmen of all-time, but I'd say considering his captaincy (one of the best Australian captains ever and the only man I'd put definitively ahead of him, Richie Benaud, considers him THE best) and his relative revolutionary-ness (far more than that who is often considered, so wrongly, a revolutionary - Kerry Packer) he'd certainly be at worst a contender for any top-100 I did (I'd do such a thing very reluctantly, obviously). Certainly a very significant figure in cricket history.

And this is from someone who really doesn't like him as a commentator at all.
Yeah I get all that but

1. My Top 100, like anyone's, will not be devoid of personal bias, and I don't like Ian Chappell;

2. His Test record as a batsman isn't anything particularly special, although he was obviously a pretty good player;

3. His captaincy is in his favour but it had its downsides - the atmosphere he created, sledging in particular - and in any case tbh I find it pretty difficult to judge his captaincy without having seen him captain. If I were selecting a captain-for-captain's-sake I might prefer to go for Brearley (as to which, of course, see point 1) although he wasn't as good a batsman.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
KP being ranked in front of Steve Waugh was such utter nonsense

Batting - Waugh

Bowling - Waugh

Fielding - Waugh

Captaincy - Waugh

Longevity - Waugh

In other words, KP is not in the same ball-park in any respect

Anyway, there are numerous other examples of where I think he's way off mark but at least he's generated discussion and probably sold a few books into the bargain
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Pietersen may not currently be in the same class as Steve Waugh but his definately be amongst the top 100 cricketers. He is criminally underrated and his record against Glenn McGrath & Shane Warne is fantastic and we're talking about a guy who also reverse slog-swept Muttiah Muralitharan over coverpoint for six!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
One has to question what the point of that post is, given that social didn't say anywhere that Pietersen did not deserve to be in a top-100, just that he's obviously nowhere near as good as Stephen Waugh right now.
 

Noble One

International Vice-Captain
Pietersen may not currently be in the same class as Steve Waugh but his definately be amongst the top 100 cricketers. He is criminally underrated and his record against Glenn McGrath & Shane Warne is fantastic and we're talking about a guy who also reverse slog-swept Muttiah Muralitharan over coverpoint for six!
...and Ryan Campbell used to scoop the ball over the wicket-keeper for six. One shot does not make a great player.
 

Noble One

International Vice-Captain
He didn't average 50 in Test Cricket though, did he?
I believe you missed my point. You are justifying a great batsman based on a unique shot he can play.

Yes it is obvious that Kevin Pietersen is a fantastic batsmen, possibly a top 100 cricketer of all time. But base it on statistics, impact or big performances not the once-off ability to reverse sweep a full toss for six.
 

Migara

International Coach
Pietersen may not currently be in the same class as Steve Waugh but his definately be amongst the top 100 cricketers. He is criminally underrated and his record against Glenn McGrath & Shane Warne is fantastic and we're talking about a guy who also reverse slog-swept Muttiah Muralitharan over coverpoint for six!
One good shot never makes a player special. Considering KP, he later became bitch of the very bowler he reverse swept for six. Steve Waugh is miles ahead of KP as even a batsman, because KP never faced wrath of Donald, Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar or Wasim in full flight. Waugh, took them head on, and came good. Kp would have been less successful if he had to play such bowling, considering that KP is an egoistic character, and these were bowlers who step up their speed 10k when some body decids to talk to them
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Steve Waugh is miles ahead of KP as even a batsman, because KP never faced wrath of Donald, Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar or Wasim in full flight. Waugh, took them head on, and came good. Kp would have been less successful if he had to play such bowling, considering that KP is an egoistic character, and these were bowlers who step up their speed 10k when some body decids to talk to them
I don't want to get sucked into a slightly bizarre "is KP better than Steve Waugh" argument, but I don't think that you can be sure that KP wouldn't have shone against those great bowlers. He tends to up his game when the spotlight is on him, and he's had notable success against Murali, Warne and McGrath, who are all all-time greats of the game.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Yes - and that's why they have a chance of getting into my top 100 cricketers of all time.
My favourite comment in the thread - I think a lot of people are underestimating just how mind-disintegratingly good a cricketer has to be to even warrant consideration for a shortlist for the all time top 100, let alone actually be included in the final selection. I reckon that if all of us were asked to, without counting, list the players we think would be worthy of a top 100 spot we'd probably come up with about 300 names.

I've already said before in this thread that there are some glaring absences in my opinion (Faulkner, Garner and Davidson at the top of the list) but I'd ask everyone this - for each of the players you are advocating to be definitely included in the 100, who would you remove to make way for them?
 

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