What do you think of Harbhajan Singh?

[honestbharani]

It's not impossible that the Australian team made the whole thing up for no discernible reason, or that Harbhajan actually said something in Hindi to someone who doesn't understand any Hindi that happened by chance to sound like monkey. That's why he was found innocent.

Not impossible, but absurd. Noone could prove it, but it's pretty obvious to any impartial observers that he did it. It's an OJ Simpson kind of situation.

Not really... The WHOLE Aussie team didn't make anything up.. It was Symonds, Hayden, Ponting and Clarke and I am sure there is a lot of credibility there..


Secondly, it IS possible to get the Hindi and English words mixed up and in the trial, Symonds himself admitted it may have been some other word...


And quite a number of IMPARTIAL observers did agree that Harbhajan may not have used the word at all..... It just depends on what YOU define as impartial... And judging by your stance on Harbhajan the person, I don't think it is fair to call yourself IMPARTIAL in this instance either. I certainly don't call myself impartial on this issue...

 

[Uppercut]

I had nothing at all against Harbhajan at the time, the Harbs-hate largely stems from that incident. I'm not impartial now, but around the time of that incident i was. Well, relatively, i think, because it's impossible for anyone to ever be fully impartial.

Symonds may be a bogan, Ponting may push the boundaries of decency, Clarke may claim dubious catches and Hayden may... umm... look intimidating when he plays cricket. But i don't have them down as people who pretend to have heard racist remarks for no reason and no tangible benefit whatsoever. It's a bit of an odd suggestion. Why would they?

And yes, Harbhajan may have uttered a word to Symonds in a language he won't understand that coincidentally happened to sound exactly like "monkey". Hmmmm.

Look, i'm not a one-man jury, i don't need to supply you with undeniable 100% proof to support my judgement. I just think it's pretty damn likely that Harbs made a racist remark.

 

[pasag]

I believe there was a bar incident.. But thinking about it again, it may have been wrongly reported too... But I believe reading something like that somewhere..

Might be thinking of a time when after one of his few Test tons as he was going back to the dressing room a guy tried to hug him and Symonds stuck his bat in the guys chest. Then there's also the time he knocked out the streaker.

 

[Bracken]

And quite a number of IMPARTIAL observers did agree that Harbhajan may not have used the word at all..... It just depends on what YOU define as impartial...

Actually, I think it would more depend on your definition of "observer". The umpires both stated that they didn't hear the exchange, and everyone else within eighty metres or so was either an Indian team member or an Australian one.

Both hearings found that Hayden, Clarke and Symonds were the only Australians within earshot, and Harbhajan was the only Indian. Tendulkar apparently didn't hear anything right up until after the first hearing, at which point he also heard the whole conversation.

I'd rather widen my urethra with a hammer and a golf tee than dredge up this nonsense again, but I'm genuinely curious here. Obviously, none of those five (well, four and a half) were impartial, so who were the impartial observers?

 

[Redbacks]

Obviously, none of those five (well, four and a half) were impartial, so who were the impartial observers?

probably nobody, so they had to throw the case out.

 

[silentstriker]

Boy, isn't this fun?

 

[Bracken]

Boy, isn't this fun?

No, Murali's better..

 

[silentstriker]

Hayden may... umm... look intimidating when he plays cricket.

Not quite

And yes, Harbhajan may have uttered a word to Symonds in a language he won't understand that coincidentally happened to sound exactly like "monkey". Hmmmm.

Well, if anyone would say 'teri maa ki', it would be Harbhajan. But I think people are being just a little naive if they think that's what happened, or worse, if they think monkey isn't racist. Harbhajan fully knew what he was doing, and just lost it as he has clearly shown he has the propensity to do, and said the racist word. I can't prove it, but that seems be the most likely scenario. Similar loss of control happened with Lehmann and Gibbs during moments of anger. None of that is an excuse, and Hayden was right in that he really is a weed.

 

[honestbharani]

I had nothing at all against Harbhajan at the time, the Harbs-hate largely stems from that incident. I'm not impartial now, but around the time of that incident i was. Well, relatively, i think, because it's impossible for anyone to ever be fully impartial.

Symonds may be a bogan, Ponting may push the boundaries of decency, Clarke may claim dubious catches and Hayden may... umm... look intimidating when he plays cricket. But i don't have them down as people who pretend to have heard racist remarks for no reason and no tangible benefit whatsoever. It's a bit of an odd suggestion. Why would they?

And yes, Harbhajan may have uttered a word to Symonds in a language he won't understand that coincidentally happened to sound exactly like "monkey". Hmmmm.

Look, i'm not a one-man jury, i don't need to supply you with undeniable 100% proof to support my judgement. I just think it's pretty damn likely that Harbs made a racist remark.

pretty damn likely is different from saying "he definitely did say it" which is what you said in your original post... You qualify it this way and I got no issues... There are some sensitive issues here and it will be good if the posters can qualify their opinions on contentious issues which cannot be proven one way or other in some decent manner... That's all I am asking here.


You are quite free to think Harbhajan might have said that but just don't post here saying "he did say that", because it was not and cannot be proven.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, if anyone would say 'teri maa ki', it would be Harbhajan. But I think people are being just a little naive if they think that's what happened, or worse, if they think monkey isn't racist. Harbhajan fully knew what he was doing, and just lost it as he has clearly shown he has the propensity to do, and said the racist word. I can't prove it, but that seems be the most likely scenario. Similar loss of control happened with Lehmann and Gibbs during moments of anger. None of that is an excuse, and Hayden was right in that he really is a weed.

Pretty much agree with this completely. Thats enough.

 

[RhyZa]

I'm an Indian, but I play basketball and soccer mainly. I am really competitive and somewhat of a bad loser even though I like to show good sportsmanship as well. In fact I enjoy when there is a little bad blood or physicality during otherwise friendly games. When the games are done I shake hands and it's done with, and two of us can go have a beer. I have never got into a fight in my life.

What does this have to do with anything? I agree with the earlier poster who said some people are different when they play the game than when they don't. I guess this is why I'm not so quick to assume a player is as good or bad in real life as he acts on the pitch.

 

[Burgey]

Not really... The WHOLE Aussie team didn't make anything up.. It was Symonds, Hayden, Ponting and Clarke and I am sure there is a lot of credibility there..


Secondly, it IS possible to get the Hindi and English words mixed up and in the trial, Symonds himself admitted it may have been some other word...


And quite a number of IMPARTIAL observers did agree that Harbhajan may not have used the word at all..... It just depends on what YOU define as impartial... And judging by your stance on Harbhajan the person, I don't think it is fair to call yourself IMPARTIAL in this instance either. I certainly don't call myself impartial on this issue...

Ponting made nothing up. His players told him HBS used a racist term vs Symonds.

Let's play role reversal. Dhoni is skipper and his player or players come up to him and say an Australian player used a racist remark against him/ them.

IMO no captain would be doing the right thing if they ignored that and didn't inform the umpires. That's because IMO racism is intolerable and should not be ignored. I'm no fan of Pontng's captaincy (I'm not a stern critic either). but in this case IMO he did the right thing. As for what the players themselves heard or thought they heard, that's a slightly different (but important) point.

Also bare in mind none of the players, Indian or Australian, know at the time of the incident what has or has not been picked up by the stump mics.

What he said or didn't say, I don't know. And to be fair to Ponting, it's not like he said he heard HBS say anything. On balance, I think it was right the charge was thrown out, as there was insufficient evidence to convict him of it. But none of the players, at the time of the incident, can know the mics would or would not pick things up. They can only report things as they heard (or think they heard) them. I include Tendulkar in that as much as the Australian players.

 

[honestbharani]

Not quite



Well, if anyone would say 'teri maa ki', it would be Harbhajan. But I think people are being just a little naive if they think that's what happened, or worse, if they think monkey isn't racist. Harbhajan fully knew what he was doing, and just lost it as he has clearly shown he has the propensity to do, and said the racist word. I can't prove it, but that seems be the most likely scenario. Similar loss of control happened with Lehmann and Gibbs during moments of anger. None of that is an excuse, and Hayden was right in that he really is a weed.

I don't mind you thinking it is the likely scenario.. That is upto individuals.. I do have a problem with UC coming out here and posting as if it was somethign that definitely happened. You may well BELIEVE that is what happened, but it was never proven and it is a pretty serious allegation, so I won't mind a bit of PC here...

 

[honestbharani]

Ponting made nothing up. His players told him HBS used a racist term vs Symonds.

Let's play role reversal. Dhoni is skipper and his player or players come up to him and say an Australian player used a racist remark against him/ them.

IMO no captain would be doing the right thing if they ignored that and didn't inform the umpires. That's because IMO racism is intolerable and should not be ignored. I'm no fan of Pontng's captaincy (I'm not a stern critic either). but in this case IMO he did the right thing. As for what the players themselves heard or thought they heard, that's a slightly different (but important) point.

Also bare in mind none of the players, Indian or Australian, know at the time of the incident what has or has not been picked up by the stump mics.

What he said or didn't say, I don't know. And to be fair to Ponting, it's not like he said he heard HBS say anything. On balance, I think it was right the charge was thrown out, as there was insufficient evidence to convict him of it. But none of the players, at the time of the incident, can know the mics would or would not pick things up. They can only report things as they heard (or think they heard) them. I include Tendulkar in that as much as the Australian players.

I have made my opinions on Ponting known earlier as well.. I agree with you that he seems to be a more honest kind of a bloke than some of those other ones, at least on the cricket field. But I do believe he trusts his team mates too much and thinks of their words as the truth a bit too much...

I am not telling Ponting was wrong, sorry if it came out that way in my earlier post... But I don't think guys like Symonds, Clarke and Hayden are above making such stuff up... Perhaps improbable in this case, but not impossible.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, at the end of the day, we'll probably never know. In that case, IMO, we canall have our views on what did or didn't happen, but have to accept the ultimate decision was the right one.

 

[shankar]

Looks like nobody actually read the Hansen judgement - The key aspect of the judgement was when he considered the situation if Harbhajan had indeed said 'monkey'. He concluded that even in such a case he wouldn't be found guilty under the 'racist gestures' law.

 

[Richard]

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaigos, you should've known better with a thread like this,
If it's Harbhajan it's always more,
More more more,
Hey hey hey,
More crap from CWers who usually know better.

 

[Evermind]

Also bare in mind none of the players, Indian or Australian

Eww - definitely wouldn't, don't worry about it.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Geoff Boycott - From his media commentary and from what others generally say about him, he seems a total prick. I think I remember reading something about hitting a women too, although I may be confused on that one. Gives you the openner.rs

People chuck around the allegation of wife-beating, which IMO is very unfair on Boycs. Call him a ****, call him boorish or anything like that, they might very well be true, but everone who knew him (whether they liked him or not) said that he was never a violent person, even when he was angry.

 

[archie mac]

People chuck around the allegation of wife-beating, which IMO is very unfair on Boycs. Call him a ****, call him boorish or anything like that, they might very well be true, but everone who knew him (whether they liked him or not) said that he was never a violent person, even when he was angry.

It was a beat up. If you are looking for a great read find a copy of Boycs