*Official* England in West Indies

[pskov]

Its a tough balance. Do you pick the best player even if they are unfit or do you pick the lesser player and not lower the acceptable standard?

I really dont know. Any time you pick a player not as good for non-cricketing reasons then I have an issue with it. He is only a batsman and spinner. On the flip side, you let one guy slide and it becomes hard to maintain standards and unprofessionalism can become endemic (as I think happened in English cricket in the 80s).

It's not a discipline issue. They obviously believe that his fitness issues mean he would be less effective as a player, thus someone else is a better bet.

That said if they had these fitness tests 20 years ago Mike Gatting would never have played a test for England and Botham would probably have been forced to retire in 1986.

 

[Goughy]

It's not a discipline issue. They obviously believe that his fitness issues mean he would be less effective as a player, thus someone else is a better bet.

They are 2 seperate points. His fitness levels may make him less effective as a player but he may still be the best avaialble. They are not mutually exclusive.

Patel could quite easily point to his record and say "Ive one of the best FC records in England and Ive always been a fat ****. Are you seriously going to pick a guy that cant bat as well just because he has a lower BMI?"

I dont think his levels are so low that he cant perform, just lower than what they want and they will bring in a player not as good.

 

[Steulen]

Its a tough balance. Do you pick the best player even if they are unfit or do you pick the lesser player and not lower the acceptable standard?

I really dont know. Any time you pick a player not as good for non-cricketing reasons then I have an issue with it. He is only a batsman and spinner. On the flip side, you let one guy slide and it becomes hard to maintain standards and unprofessionalism can become endemic (as I think happened in English cricket in the 80s).

Of course it's also a matter of double standards. They can and are willing to do this to Patel, but not to Flintoff or Pietersen. Patel is expendable, and is just used to set an example. As a tool. Which he probably is, judging by this report.

 

[TT Boy]

It's not a discipline issue. They obviously believe that his fitness issues mean he would be less effective as a player, thus someone else is a better bet.

That said if they had these fitness tests 20 years ago Mike Gatting would never have played a test for England and Botham would probably have been forced to retire in 1986.

It’s binary. Patel has been told incessantly it would seem to lose weight and he hasn’t.

Interesting to see how consistent the ECB will be with this issue - If say Rob Key has a sterling start to the county season and one of the openers is injured will Key get selected despite being an unashamedly proud lardass?

 

[GIMH]

Of course it's also a matter of double standards. They can and are willing to do this to Patel, but not to Flintoff or Pietersen. Patel is expendable, and is just used to set an example. As a tool. Which he probably is, judging by this report.

Flintoff & Pietersen aren't overweight, though?

Flintoff obviously was, once, "not bad for a fat lad" and all that jazz

 

[King Pietersen]

Gareth Batty??????? Surely there are guys with a better record than his. Bowling average of 34 economy of nearly 5, and in the ODi's he's played in the past he's got a bowling average of 73.50 and a batting average of 1.50. Awful selection, fair enough call up Rashid, but then add another batsman to cover for Patel's batting. Where the hell is Jonathan Trott ffs? List A average only bettered by 2 players in the history of English Domestic cricket, and he's had 1 T20 international. The England selectors are a joke.

Batty's record last season was poor as well, only got 14 wickets, even Collingwood and Bopara got more wickets and at a better average. What an awful call-up. Get Jonathan Trott into the side, or Graham Napier if they want a bowling all-rounder.

 

[TT Boy]

Of course it's also a matter of double standards. They can and are willing to do this to Patel, but not to Flintoff or Pietersen. Patel is expendable, and is just used to set an example. As a tool. Which he probably is, judging by this report.

Not sure about that. Patel has been indentified as a talented middle order batsman for sometime and I’m sure he wasn’t that far away from getting the test number 6 slot that Bopara took. His definitely good enough but this public disclosure from the ECB is a bit embarrassing for him.

And it's not like the ECB haven't done Fred and KP like a kipper recently...

 

[sammy2]

Jamaicaobserver

We need to keep momentum going

NASH'S NOTES

BRENDAN NASH

Tuesday, March 03, 2009

It was always going to be difficult to get a win on such a batting-friendly pitch. Yesterday the bowlers tried hard... they gave it everything they had, but it was very hard going. We just didn't take enough wickets early on and the game just drifted after that.

Unfortunately for me I missed a catch and Alastair Cook went on to make a century. I just didn't quite get to it, I was running back into this very strong breeze that was actually blowing back against me.

In the end I actually thought the ball was a little bit closer to me than it was and in the end I had to lunge and dive and couldn't quite get the fingers on it. But that's one of those things. Had that catch been taken, you never know what could happen but that's the kind of thing you need on a day like today (yesterday). You need to be able to take the half chances and put pressure on the batting team.

Having said all that, England batted very well on what was a very good batting pitch and a very good outfield.

I have to say these are probably the best batting conditions I have come across in the Caribbean. It was definitely suited for the batsmen and bowlers had to work very, very hard. The scores tell the story.

Towards the end though, the spinners were getting a little bit out of it.

Now we go to Trinidad 1-0 up with one to play, it is important that we recognise that we can't just say 'okay we can't lose the series so let whatever happen, happen'. We can't do that. We have built some good momentum since New Zealand.

We drew that Test series, we have come back here and won at Sabina Park and now we have drawn twice, so now we have to keep that momentum going.

We need to keep fighting and keep on with the good work.

 

[Steulen]

Flintoff & Pietersen aren't overweight, though?

Flintoff obviously was, once, "not bad for a fat lad" and all that jazz

Hypothetically speaking, I can't imagine the ECB ever saying to Kevin "BMI>25" Pietersen: You're out of the team, you're fat.

 

[King Pietersen]

Probably because, you know, he isn't.........Not anywhere near Fats Patel levels of fatness anyway.

 

[Steulen]

Uhm, yeah, I know..hence the hypothetically. Even if he was a fatty, ECB would never do to him what they've just done to Patel. That's basically my point.

 

[four_or_six]

Difference between Patel and Flintoff is that Flintoff actually did something about it. He hasn't been overweight for years. It's not a good sign that Patel does a fitness test when he meets up with the Lions squad, is told (again) that he needs to work on his fitness, and then when they look at him now later on he's even worse. Even Rob Key is a lot fitter now than he used to be. He's still a bit big but he's loads better than he was when he played for England.

 

[wpdavid]

It’s binary. Patel has been told incessantly it would seem to lose weight and he hasn’t.

Interesting to see how consistent the ECB will be with this issue - If say Rob Key has a sterling start to the county season and one of the openers is injured will Key get selected despite being an unashamedly proud lardass?

Maybe different requirements for a test match batsman and an odi all-rounder?
Only musing.

 

[GIMH]

Uhm, yeah, I know..hence the hypothetically. Even if he was a fatty, ECB would never do to him what they've just done to Patel. That's basically my point.

That's just speculation though. They had no problem dropping and publically admonishing Freddie during the WC for his drunken antics, and as TT Boy alluded to Pietersen was hung out to dry lately by the ECB

 

[Uppercut]

Maybe different requirements for a test match batsman and an odi all-rounder?
Only musing.

My initial thoughts. Surely good running between the wickets is arguably the most important thing for an ODI middle-order player?

 

[ozone]

IMHO, and I would guess a lot of people would disagree with it, dropping a player for fitness reasons is a piss take if the player is still scoring runs and/or taking wickets. If I was Samit Patel right now, I would be fuming with whoever made the decision. As has been said before, he's scored **** loads of runs at county level in all forms of cricket despite being slightly unfit, and yet that isn't enough to play internationals.

 

[Pup Clarke]

If say Rob Key has a sterling start to the county season and one of the openers is injured will Key get selected despite being an unashamedly proud lardass?

Rob Key's weight is fine now, he's been alot fitter now for the last couple of seasons.

 

[Pup Clarke]

IMHO, and I would guess a lot of people would disagree with it, dropping a player for fitness reasons is a piss take if the player is still scoring runs and/or taking wickets. If I was Samit Patel right now, I would be fuming with whoever made the decision. As has been said before, he's scored **** loads of runs at county level in all forms of cricket despite being slightly unfit, and yet that isn't enough to play internationals.

Thing is, cricket is a team sport and the team will more often than not suffer as a result of Patel's fitness inadaquacies.

 

[roseboy64]

IMHO, and I would guess a lot of people would disagree with it, dropping a player for fitness reasons is a piss take if the player is still scoring runs and/or taking wickets. If I was Samit Patel right now, I would be fuming with whoever made the decision. As has been said before, he's scored **** loads of runs at county level in all forms of cricket despite being slightly unfit, and yet that isn't enough to play internationals.

If he's been told he needs to do some work on his fitness and has ignored that then he can only blame himself.

 

[Richard]

Samit Patel not selected for the ODI series due to being a fatty...

"Samit Patel is a talented cricketer but he, like every other player who joins the senior England team, must be aware of the strict fitness criteria that will be set," England cricket manager Hugh Morris said.

"It is extremely frustrating that Samit has not heeded the warnings of his county, Nottinghamshire, and the England national selector Geoff Miller as well as the England management and strength and conditioning team. In the circumstances we had no option but to de select him from the tour."

Supercricket

Good stuff from the ECB.

Although Gareth Batty is now apparently inline for ODI selection with Swann's injury.

I don't think we'll ever truly get rid of Gareth Batty from the England picture.