India's second-best all-rounder ever?

[Arjun]

When you look for Indian all-rounders from all time, Kapil Dev is obviously the best they have. Who do you think is the next best? Ravi Shastri may have a shout- he's been a batting mainstay and a more-than-useful left-arm spinner. Manoj Prabhakar has been the utility man for the team, opening the bowling and the batting. We can also look back at Kapil's partners-in-action, Madan Lal, Jimmy Amarnath and Roger Binny. Further back, we have the likes of Eknath Solkar, Dattu Phadkar and Rusi Surti. Irfan Pathan could have made this list, but he hasn't yet found his feet, and likewise his brother, while India's so-called batsmen-who-can-bowl just don't cut it. We're looking at wicketkeeping all-rounders as well, so Engineer, Dhoni and Kirmani may make this list.

 

[Matt79]

Mankad?

 

[G.I.Joe]

Vinoo Mankad, without a shadow of doubt. He has a case for being the best, even.

The ones mentioned in our post would qualify for a debate on the third best all rounder for India.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Agarkar FTW.

 

[Arjun]

Fair point about Mankad. Now the poll needs to be fixed a little...one more name to add

That said, Engineer is also worth a shout. He's been one of the better wicketkeepers to play for India, and also maintained an average of 31 while opening the batting, with two centuries and 16 over 50.

 

[Manee]

Mankad followed by Dhoni, imo.

 

[The Sean]

Mankad?

Vinoo Mankad, without a shadow of doubt. He has a case for being the best, even.

The ones mentioned in our post would qualify for a debate on the third best all rounder for India.

These. In fact I'm sure you could find a decent level of support for the argument that Kapil Dev is the second best, behind Mankad.

 

[Richard]

Not sure how Engineer counts, he was a wicketkeeper-batsman, not a batsman-bowler. Agree that Mankad is second-best after Kapil BTW.

The third-best is probably Dattu Phadkar, certainly better than almost all the poll names. And if some of them are worth a mention, so is Syed Abid Ali.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Mankad, yeah.

Outside of Test cricket, claims could be made for Vijay Hazare (averaged 58 with the bat, 25 with the ball) and Polly Umrigar (52 and 26).

EDIT: Also, I'm with Richard here. Keeping wicket is not a skill that should be equated with batting or bowling.

 

[bagapath]

why cant this poll be for the best all-rounder ever? am sure mankad is good enough to be put on par with kapil. they will have to take the first and second places any way.

 

[bagapath]

i voted for "any other" and i want kapil to be given my vote. i consider mankad the best-all rounder india ever had, a fraction ahead of kapil.

 

[Richard]

I think we should redo this - one poll for Kapil Dev vs Vinoo Mankad for #1 and one for third, with Dattu Phadkar included this time.

 

[fredfertang]

Amar Singh is worthier of mention than some in this poll

 

[jeevan]

Salim Durani has scored a century and taken a 10-for, more than what Madan Lal, Surti, Binny and perhaps even Abid Ali, Phadkar have done.As has Irfan Pathan. All of these have played between 25 and 40 tests.

So these two make a case for being in the #3 poll.

 

[Richard]

What's really interesting his how precious few spin-bowling all-rounders India have had: Durrani, Mankad, Shastri. And compare that to all the seam-bowling ones: Phadkar, Binny, Madan Lal, Arun Lal, GS Ramchand, Surti, Abid Ali, Solkar, Ghavri, Sandhu, Prabhakar, Agarkar... even Pathan, though for most of his career it was indeed bowling along that saw him picked.

L Amar Singh and Mohinder Armanath are different IMO because they were specialists who were useful with the other discipline - Singh would've played as seam-bowler and Armanath as batsman. Of those who spun, I suppose Vijay Hazare qualifies in domestic terms as well, though his bowling was completely ineffective at Test level, and there's Nadkarni who's the other way around - bowler who could also bat.

 

[Prince EWS]

What's really interesting his how precious few spin-bowling all-rounders India have had: Durrani, Mankad, Shastri. And compare that to all the seam-bowling ones: Phadkar, Binny, Madan Lal, Arun Lal, GS Ramchand, Surti, Abid Ali, Solkar, Ghavri, Sandhu, Prabhakar, Agarkar... even Pathan, though for most of his career it was indeed bowling along that saw him picked.

L Amar Singh and Mohinder Armanath are different IMO because they were specialists who were useful with the other discipline - Singh would've played as seam-bowler and Armanath as batsman. Of those who spun, I suppose Vijay Hazare qualifies in domestic terms as well, though his bowling was completely ineffective at Test level, and there's Nadkarni who's the other way around - bowler who could also bat.

It's probably because India have generally had a larger-than-average ratio of spinners to seamers among their best frontline bowlers. Their specialist attack was hence usually better complimented by allrounders who bowled seam-up - it allowed them to be well-balanced even when playing two (or even three at home) specialist spinners.

Pathan playing and batting in the top 7 to accomodate both Kumble and Harbhajan is a good recent example of this. Powar for example had a better case for selection based on his domestic exploits on many of the occasions Pathan was picked but he wouldn't have really accomplished what they were looking to achieve.

 

[Richard]

Ind33d, I did think that. Often in the UK and New Zealand, of course, it's worked the other way. Where in India, an average seam-bowler who'd not get near the team gives himself a chance if he can bat, an average fingerspinner who'd not get near the England team gives himself a chance if he can bat.

Even so, I still think the numbers are remarkable.

 

[fredfertang]

Just read the whole thread - I had assumed, wrongly, that it was the Amarnath patriarch, Lala, who was an option - clearly he's not but, as a genuine allrounder, should be IMO

 

[Richard]

I could be mistaken - may be Armanath of the Lala, rather than Mohinder, variety.

 

[Anil]

mankad is the 2nd best after kapil...i would like to know the arguments who say that mankad was better than kapil...