Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
The batting allrounder is Gilchrist who'll bat at 6 and with Imran at 7 it's the perfect line-up.
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Post Packer World XI - a discussion
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
The batting allrounder is Gilchrist who'll bat at 6 and with Imran at 7 it's the perfect line-up.
bagapath
International Captain
if kallis wins the no.6 poll or even the last poll when he competes with murali, mcgrath and, possibly, botham he will be your batting all rounder and fifth bowler. imran is good enough to be one of the four main strike bowlers. so if kallis comes through your wish will be fulfilled. when i wrote the earlier post he was not the leading runner up. now he is and very likely to be included in the last poll
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Democracy ftw.
bagapath
International Captain
I am sure a few others would too. But this would mean adding more runners up from the allrounders poll as well to be fair. I dont want to do that. actually, I want to vote for ian botham very badly. at the moment, it looks like he wont make it and kallis is leading him by a couple of votes. in all likelihood the final poll will be between murali, mcgrath and kallis. i will take it with a pinch of salt and live with it. let us stick to taking the top runner up only to the final poll.
bagapath
International Captain
changed my earlier decision because the no.6 poll is taking too long to give us a clear cut runner-up. However Imran has won the poll by a handsome margin and makes it to the team.
I've added kallis and botham as well as lillee and ambrose to the poll for the last spot in the team. mcgrath and murali will have to fight it out with these four guys
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41677-choose-last-player-post-packer-xi.html
I've added kallis and botham as well as lillee and ambrose to the poll for the last spot in the team. mcgrath and murali will have to fight it out with these four guys
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41677-choose-last-player-post-packer-xi.html
pasag
RTDAS
Assuming this is the side:
1. S.M. Gavaskar
2. Mathew Hayden
3. Viv Richards
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Brian Lara
6. Imran
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Malcolm Marshall
10.Shane Warne
11.Murali
there's not much between it and a runner up XI:
Greenidge
Sehwag
Ponting
Chappell
Kallis
Flower
Botham
Akram
Lillee
Ambrose
McGrath
1. S.M. Gavaskar
2. Mathew Hayden
3. Viv Richards
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Brian Lara
6. Imran
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Malcolm Marshall
10.Shane Warne
11.Murali
there's not much between it and a runner up XI:
Greenidge
Sehwag
Ponting
Chappell
Kallis
Flower
Botham
Akram
Lillee
Ambrose
McGrath
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Should sim a series between the two IMO.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Unless it's played in conditions that favour spin and offer little to the quicks...
Evermind
International Debutant
I'd go with either Sangakkara or Flower, TBH.
But Imran >>>> Botham, so that's gonna hurt this team.
Also, I'd have Smith over Greenidge.
Matt79
Hall of Fame Member
Depends if we're talking performances over whole of career or of their peak periods. There's little doubt the Bothamof the first half of his career was equal to and often better than Imran.
Statements like Imran was miles better are a bit silly if the difference between ol' broken Beefy and fit and firing Botham aren't taken into account.
Statements like Imran was miles better are a bit silly if the difference between ol' broken Beefy and fit and firing Botham aren't taken into account.
Fusion
Global Moderator
Would be harsh on Akram to miss out on both the first and second XI's IMO.
Evermind
International Debutant
I don't believe in isolating bits and pieces of a player's career or isolating particular batting positions to justify his superiority/inferiority. He did play international cricket, didn't he, even when "broken"? Well then that period needs to be taken into account. Otherwise, where does it end? The slipperly slope will result in Gillespie being declared a better batsman than Kallis - he did score a double hundred in that ONE innings. And to be fair, Imran also went through periods of injury and loss of form.
Incidentally, Botham's peak was 1977 - 1981. After that he played test cricket for another ELEVEN YEARS from 1981 to 1992. During this period his average was 36+, SR was 66+, and ER was 3.26. Do you really want me to not consider the majority of his career, then?
Let's compare their bowling peaks, of roughly 40 games (note that Imran's peak is longer - in terms of time period, not games - and absurdly more successful):
Botham:
Code:
[FONT="Arial"]
unfiltered 1977-1992 102 168 383 8/34 13/106 28.40 2.99 56.9 27 4
filtered 1977-1981 41 71 202 8/34 13/106 21.20 2.64 48.0 17 4 [/FONT]
Code:
[FONT="Arial"]
unfiltered 1971-1992 88 142 362 8/58 14/116 22.81 2.54 53.7 23 6
filtered 1979-1986 38 63 189 8/58 14/116 16.04 2.24 42.8 14 3 [/FONT]
Last edited:
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Not sure how even the most glorified stats monger comes to that conclusion. In 1977 he played 2 Test Matches with minimal success. In 1982 he averaged nearly 50 with bat including 3 centuries and also had a fair degree of success with the ball, especially during the English summer.
Slifer
International Captain
Man for man let's see:
Greenidge < Gavaskar
Sehwag <Hayden
Ponting = Richards
Chappell >SRT
Kallis > BCL (as pure players, not as batsmen)
Flower = Gilchrist
Botham < Imran
Akram < Hadlee
Lillee <Marshall
Ambrose =Warne
McGrath >Murali
The Team with Imran and co noticebly better imo esp with that bowling attack.
Greenidge < Gavaskar
Sehwag <Hayden
Ponting = Richards
Chappell >SRT
Kallis > BCL (as pure players, not as batsmen)
Flower = Gilchrist
Botham < Imran
Akram < Hadlee
Lillee <Marshall
Ambrose =Warne
McGrath >Murali
The Team with Imran and co noticebly better imo esp with that bowling attack.
Uppercut
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Interesting. But that's not always the best way to do things- for instance, if you were to switch Sehwag and Greenidge around and think Greenidge>Hayden, that's a difference.
I'll compare the team's areas:
Openers
Not a hell of a lot between these opening partnerships, but the first-choice team is largely the better. Greenidge and Sehwag are hardly weak links, though.
Middle order
Ponting, Chappell, Kallis vs. Richards, Tendulkar, Lara. Not a lot in it at all here.
Lower order/tail
Flower, Botham, Akram, Lillee, Ambrose vs. Gilchrist, Imran, Hadlee, Marshall, Warne. Quite a bit more depth to the original team in terms of batting.
Bowling
I'm just putting it all under one area, because otherwise there's a spinning non-contest. It's basically:
McGrath, Lillee, Ambrose, Botham, Akram, Kallis
against
Marshall, Imran, Hadlee, Warne, Murali
I actually think the first side has a miles better pace attack. Saying "if Imran, Hadlee and Marshall can't take wickets, another fast bowler won't" is just a fallacy. Everyone bowls well on different days, and five top-class quicks are 66% more likely to have a player in unstoppable form than three. On the other hand, slow pitches could prove their undoing, but they have Akram in the team for when the ball gets older to offset that to an extent.
Jacques Kallis is not to be underestimated either, he's very much a threat to top-class batsmen. The list of nine players he's dismissed four or more times in tests includes:
Adam Gilchrist, six times
Shivnarine Chanderpaul, five times
Matthew Hayden, five times
Alec Stewart, four times
Younus Khan, four times
Bowling at six, he might not have much impact, but he's definitely an asset to the attack.
The major problem, obviously, is that on raging turners they'll be at a huge disadvantage. However, that's a small minority of pitches. IMO, they have a very slightly better attack on most pitches, and a considerably worse one on a select few.
It's an interesting thought though, how close the first and second XI are.