Athlai
Not Terrible
****ing **** clearly.
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***Official West Indies in New Zealand***
- Thread starter Athlai
- Start date
Athlai
Not Terrible
^'s knows his stuff. Problem wasn't that a team with wickets in hands wasn't able to slog some runs but that we didn't have enough runs to defend.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Having five frontline bowlers > having a specialist batsman come in at #8. The depth of the batting is fine - having Broom or Elliott coming in eight and having twenty overs minimum from a combination of Oram, Elliott and Ryder wouldn't be a good idea at all IMO. Having lots of part-timers doesn't make up for not having enough specialists.
If someone like Broom is to come in, it should be at the expense of an underperforming batsman; not a bowler.
Agree, bowlers win you matches in any form of the game. You really should trust your top 7 batsmen to be able to do the job otherwise you don't deserve to win.
sportychic33
State 12th Man
I think Vettori's bad decision making cost New Zealand the game in the end.
Yes, we did not bat as effectively as we should have however our bowling and fielding got us back in the game, where after the 24th we definitely had the upper hand.
Vettori choosing to bowl Patel in the second to last over, was idiotic to say the least. In the 21st over, Patel was having trouble gripping the ball due to the dewy conditions and the dew does not subside in 6 overs, it gets worse so of course he was going to be unable to get the spin and deliver as effectively as he could in the second to last over.
If I were in Vettori's position, I would have utilised Elliot or Ryder earlier and changed the bowling partnerships I used.
It brings to question . .. what would have Fleming done in the same situation?
Yes, we did not bat as effectively as we should have however our bowling and fielding got us back in the game, where after the 24th we definitely had the upper hand.
Vettori choosing to bowl Patel in the second to last over, was idiotic to say the least. In the 21st over, Patel was having trouble gripping the ball due to the dewy conditions and the dew does not subside in 6 overs, it gets worse so of course he was going to be unable to get the spin and deliver as effectively as he could in the second to last over.
If I were in Vettori's position, I would have utilised Elliot or Ryder earlier and changed the bowling partnerships I used.
It brings to question . .. what would have Fleming done in the same situation?
Mr Mxyzptlk
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There wasn't much reason to use Elliott and Ryder earlier though. New Zealand were in control until the Sarwan-Ramdin stand. And that partnership happened at the business end of the match, so using (essentially) part-time bowlers would have been more likely to backfire.
Athlai
Not Terrible
thierry henry
International Coach
When did this happen?
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
I thought the 2nd ODI was a washout, only just saw that the Windies pulled off a thriller. Hopefully the Black Caps can pull off a win in the next one to make it a good series. A bit of a shame that the weather has played a role, I suppose it was fine everywhere else but ChCh?
GGG
State Captain
Yeah I am a bit confused about this also, any cricinfo links to games?
_Ed_
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I thought it had been the case for quite a long time now. Not that it's saying much of course.
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Since always. He's often used at the death.
thierry henry
International Coach
When was he any good at it?
Patel has had a few decent spells in ODI cricket bowling through the middle, spinning it and taking wickets. Apart from that he has never been much good at restricting run scoring at all, not even in domestic OD cricket.
thierry henry
International Coach
Dunno how to respond to that. It's like saying a batting average of 20 is acceptable.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Patel is bowled at three period in the game
-During the powerplays
-In tandem with Vettori/Oram in the middle period
-At the death
Usually half of his overs are bowled during fielding restrictions or at the death and considering this he has a pretty good record for a bowler in conditions which never turn. Vettori doesn't even bowl himself during the powerplays or the death so fair play to him. Far far more economical than other Kiwi death/powerplay bowlers.
-During the powerplays
-In tandem with Vettori/Oram in the middle period
-At the death
Usually half of his overs are bowled during fielding restrictions or at the death and considering this he has a pretty good record for a bowler in conditions which never turn. Vettori doesn't even bowl himself during the powerplays or the death so fair play to him. Far far more economical than other Kiwi death/powerplay bowlers.
thierry henry
International Coach
tbh this isn't the impression I've got, but I could be mistaken
I watch most NZ ODIs (of course) and have always felt Patel was expensive, and of course his career E/R backs this up
I've mostly seen him used in the middle stages and only very rarely right at the very end of an innings. Some indepth statistical analysis might prove your point but I'm not up for it lol.
thierry henry
International Coach
But still- his record is poor
If his e/r really has been inflated by death/powerplay bowling, then his average should be better (overly attacking batsmen=wickets_
If his e/r really has been inflated by death/powerplay bowling, then his average should be better (overly attacking batsmen=wickets_
Athlai
Not Terrible
I swear he usually gets given the ball well within the first 20 overs. Usually 3rd or 4th bowler which Vettori never does. (This was in the days of the first 20 overs being power plays basically though nowadays its first 15 and then a random later period)
Jeet's gets given the worst jobs for the team and it blemishes his record somewhat but somebody has to do them. Vettori and the selectors know that Jeets gets the arse end of the work and comes out looking okay which is why he is a constant in our lineup. He has been getting a lot of unfair criticism for THAT over in the T20 but I frankly found it hard on the man that he had to come in and bowl the penultimate over in those conditions after he'd already been taken off. But if there is one guy in the team who won't shy away from a hard task its Jeeves, it didn't work on that occasion but he'll do it again in the future and pull it off and get no credit at all. Which irks me, besides Oram and Vettori (two of the most economical bowlers in world cricket) Jeets is our next hardest to get away and never gets the kudos for it.
Jeet's gets given the worst jobs for the team and it blemishes his record somewhat but somebody has to do them. Vettori and the selectors know that Jeets gets the arse end of the work and comes out looking okay which is why he is a constant in our lineup. He has been getting a lot of unfair criticism for THAT over in the T20 but I frankly found it hard on the man that he had to come in and bowl the penultimate over in those conditions after he'd already been taken off. But if there is one guy in the team who won't shy away from a hard task its Jeeves, it didn't work on that occasion but he'll do it again in the future and pull it off and get no credit at all. Which irks me, besides Oram and Vettori (two of the most economical bowlers in world cricket) Jeets is our next hardest to get away and never gets the kudos for it.