*Official* England in West Indies

[Prad100w]

Have to put my money on England tbh. Road to the Ashes starts for them. How ever its gonna be a tight series. Hoping WI could put up a very good fight.

 

[sammy2]

Jamaica has the best players, it is the reason why they are being selected instead of trinis. This Ja hating won't get lesser talented players from trnidad into the squad. The team has been slowly growing since Chris gayle took over.

 

[Beamer]

Steups. Some awful bowlers have been able to swing the ball at pace. Bennett is the one who has proven that he can take wickets cheap and often. That's what you pick Test bowlers on. Not on their natural talent.

I'd say Dwayne Smith is more naturally talented than Paul Collingwood. Guess which one is the deserved international...

But that was a raw talent XI. I would have picked Bennett years ago anyway, he is a good bowler. I just happen to believe that Roach is going to be the real deal and has too much talent to ignore while Powell gets a long run taking his wickets at an average of 47.

This is starting to sound distinctly anti-Jamaican.

I have no problems with Jamaicans, in fact my favourite fast bowler is Jerome Taylor and I would rather watch Xavier Marshall bat than anyone else in the Caribbean. Unfortunately there is a bias towards Jamaican players at the moment as Gayle threatened to resign if the selectors and the WICB did not give into his demands, which happen to be that he wants his fellow Jamaicans around him. That is fact unfortunately.

 

[Beamer]

Jamaica has the best players, it is the reason why they are being selected instead of trinis. This Ja hating won't get lesser talented players from trnidad into the squad. The team has been slowly growing since Chris gayle took over.

I agree that the team is improving and Gayle, Marshall, Nash, Taylor and Miller all belong in the setup. My concern is why Findlay has been selected, and why Powell is persisted with.

The only Trinis who should be in the setup or should be in the future are Bravo,Ramdin, Barath and Jaggernauth. Rampaul may force his way in this year is he does well.

I am not anti-Jamaican in anyway, I am just worried that Gayle has too much of a say in selection. If results continue to improve and Findlay and Powell suddenly perform well I will eat crow, but lets face it that is unlikely.

 

[aussie]

Looking at the WI team you got about 7 settled spots IMO:

Gayle
?
Sarwan
?
Chanderpaul
Nash
Bravo
?
Taylor
Edwards
?

Qestion mark 1: Chattergoon does seem like Gayle's best partner at the top currently. Needs a bit more time IMO. Have heard some good things about Adrian Barath myself but i'd give hive some more time in FC cricket, since the constant picking of players of "raw talent" is what has been hurting WI progress.

Question mark 2: The number 4 spot is a big issue ATM. Losing Samuels was massive. Marshall is no doubt talented but is too raw. Morton looked a bit out of his depth vs AUS & SA last season. Whats up with Sylvester Joseph??.

Question mark 3: Ramdin seems the best overall keeper batsman in the region. But he seem to switch off way to much on the international arena. Patrick Browne & Andre Fletcher really shouldn't be challenging him once he keeps his head on IMO.

Question mark 4: Like Samuels @ 4. Losing Collins to ENG as a Kolpak was a HUGE loss also. Powell really is being carried since no better to replace him.

 

[NUFAN]

I wonder if this is a possibility?

1 Gayle
2 Chattergoon
3 Sarwan
4 Chanderpaul
5 Nash
6 Bravo
7 Ramdin
8 Taylor
9 Benn
10 Powell
11 Edwards

I prefer Chanderpaul at 4, gives him more time.

 

[Beamer]

Top post.

Regarding the openers position, I have been looking up Adrian Barath's stats, and he averages 44 after 9 FC matches. By our standards that is a hell of a start to his career. He already has 2 centuries. The problem has been that he has performed averagely against Jamaica and Barbados, who are regarded as the best fast bowling attacks in the region. If he can score a century against one of those 2 attacks and maintain his current average or even better it this season, he will surely be a shoe in for the position, unless Chatters suddenly looks a hell of a lot better than he does now and starts scoring runs.

 

[Beamer]

I wonder if this is a possibility?

1 Gayle
2 Chattergoon
3 Sarwan
4 Chanderpaul
5 Nash
6 Bravo
7 Ramdin
8 Taylor
9 Benn
10 Powell
11 Edwards

I prefer Chanderpaul at 4, gives him more time.

I could live with that xi if Powell was replaced. I personally don't rate Benn but a spinner is better than no spinner certainly.

 

[Flem274*]

West Indies to win.

I don't have a huge knowledge of the up and comers, but to start off I'd go with..

Gayle
Marshall
Sarwan
Chanderpaul
Nash
Bravo
Ramdin
Taylor
Benn
Someone better than Powell
Someone better than Baker
Edwards

Just need a couple of seamers that can back up Taylor and Edwards imo.

EDIT: Kumar(sic) Roach could do that job. Looked damn good against Auckz on State Highway 1 at Eden Park.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But that was a raw talent XI. I would have picked Bennett years ago anyway, he is a good bowler. I just happen to believe that Roach is going to be the real deal and has too much talent to ignore while Powell gets a long run taking his wickets at an average of 47.

Let's put aside talent, which we can't really quantify anyway. Bennett is a better bowler. That much seems clear given his performance. Whether he is a better Test bowler or not in the long run, he is a much more reasonable choice for a Test cap right now. You can't honestly be suggesting that Roach get a chance in Tests anytime soon. He's never even played a full first-class season, and what little cricket he has played, he hasn't done well.

Picking players on talent alone simply does not work for West Indies cricket.

Unfortunately there is a bias towards Jamaican players at the moment as Gayle threatened to resign if the selectors and the WICB did not give into his demands, which happen to be that he wants his fellow Jamaicans around him. That is fact unfortunately.

You know this for a fact? Because AFAIK, it's not a pro-Jamaican stance that Gayle stood up to the board with.

I am not anti-Jamaican in anyway, I am just worried that Gayle has too much of a say in selection. If results continue to improve and Findlay and Powell suddenly perform well I will eat crow, but lets face it that is unlikely.

If Gayle is going to be held responsible for West Indies results, as he will be, he should have a big say in who comprises the team IMO.

Question mark 2: The number 4 spot is a big issue ATM. Losing Samuels was massive. Marshall is no doubt talented but is too raw. Morton looked a bit out of his depth vs AUS & SA last season. Whats up with Sylvester Joseph??.

Tentatively retired, it seems. He was never Test class anyway. Just a hard worker. Marshall is a better bet.

Also, not sure how Nash is settled after just 3 innings...

Question mark 4: Like Samuels @ 4. Losing Collins to ENG as a Kolpak was a HUGE loss also. Powell really is being carried since no better to replace him.

Collins is still the best bowler in the region (given that he still represents Barbados), so it really is a shame. West Indies carried him to SA last year and didn't play him. I think that was the last straw. Also worth noting that after the last Test Collymore played for West Indies he was ranked number 7 in the world.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I could live with that xi if Powell was replaced. I personally don't rate Benn but a spinner is better than no spinner certainly.

Definitely can't agree here. You don't pick token bowlers. You don't pick a spinner for the sake of it. And there are fast bowlers who are better than Benn about.

Benn
Someone better than Powell
Someone better than Baker

While we're at it, let's get someone better than Benn, thanks. Like Miller or Jaggernauth.

 

[Beamer]

Definitely can't agree here. You don't pick token bowlers. You don't pick a spinner for the sake of it. And there are fast bowlers who are better than Benn about.

While we're at it, let's get someone better than Benn, thanks. Like Miller or Jaggernauth.

Obviously I agree. both of them are miles better than Benn. If they insist on picking him as the spinner though I would prefer having him as a spin option than picking 4 seamers.

Still best of both worlds would be Jaggernauth or Miller getting a whole series to prove themselves.

 

[Woodster]

Would absolutely agree with this. Three spinners in a sixteen man squad (effectively 15 because Ambrose isn't playing short of injury)? Hmmm.

Only vague way Rashid makes sense is as a like-for-unlike replacement for Fred if (when?) his ankle goes again.

Tbh, I don't mind the inclusion of Adil Rashid, for the England management to have a close look at how he is developing, for him to experience different conditions, and hopefully for his game to grow. The balance of the side obviously looks a little wrong, as you say, three spinners in a 16 man squad when you are not touring the sub-continent is excessive, but that boils down to England not knowing who to play, either Panesar or Swann. The Rashid selection is all about development, and I don't see it does any harm to a player they seem pretty sure will be a future England player.

Whether Rashid would have benefited more from a Lions tour is the question.

 

[aussie]

Tentatively retired, it seems. He was never Test class anyway. Just a hard worker. Marshall is a better bet.

Yea Joseph did look a bit out of depth vs ENG in 04 over here. But he isn't an opener really is he. Plus he looked pretty organised in that 20 million dollar match the other day.

No doubt Marshall is more naturally talented, but i won't be expecting him to become test standard just yet.

Also, not sure how Nash is settled after just 3 innings....

Well ell yes 3 innings isn't the best measure. But based on WI standards in this 2000s era that equivalent to an English player being picked after 30 FC matches haha.

But seriously he clearly is the most solid player behind the big trio behind Chanders, Gayle n Sarwan, and having him @ # 6 gives the middle-order good stability IMO. Given that Bravo aint a test # 6 & no keeper currently in the region is test # 7.

Collins is still the best bowler in the region (given that he still represents Barbados), so it really is a shame. West Indies carried him to SA last year and didn't play him. I think that was the last straw. Also worth noting that after the last Test Collymore played for West Indies he was ranked number 7 in the world.

Word, if Samuels wasn't banned & Collins was availbale the WI would look fairly good. I heard the Kolpak ruling is changing or sum so maybe some hope for Collins to return in the future.

 

[roseboy64]

Hmm...

A Test XI looks like this IMO:

Gayle
Barath/Richards/ Chattergoon/Smith/Marshall
Sarwan
Nash
Chanderpaul
Bravo
Ramdin
Taylor
Miller/Jaggernauth
Powell/Any other pacer who does well.
Edwards

Miller and Jaggernauth seem the best bets for a spinner spot. Mohammed maybe worth a punt as well.
Roach and Bennett seem the best bets to replace Powell considering Rampaul's injured and out for six weeks. Darren Sammy also should be considered if he has a good season.
Dale Richards should be in contention if he has another good season. Barath's a maybe and only if he scores well against a good pace attack. Smith should do well again. Marshall needs to make runs for me to consider him in the team. Getting out for low scores won't help him and he needs another season or two of regional cricket. Don't want to ruin him young. Chattergoon the incumbent needs a good FC outing to keep his place depending on the performances of others.


ODI XI:
Gayle
Chattergoon/Marshall
Sarwan
Chanderpaul
Marshall/Findlay/Pollard
Bravo
Ramdin/Fletcher*/Baugh*
Taylor
Miller/ Benn/ Mohammed
Powell
Edwards/Sammy

Baugh or Fletcher with a string of performances gets intp the ODI team ahead of Ramdin.
Findlay needs runs against NZ or he should be for the drop. Pollard should be in the squad regardless to give him mroe than one series before dropping him.

 

[roseboy64]

Re: Samuels

Have heard rumblings that his ban may be contested by his lawyer. A sports radio talkshow host was in contact with the ICC and asking them questions and they weren't being straightforward really and Samuels' lawyers say they're reviewing stuff. Think it's about him being tried under rules that weren't in place when the offence was committed. Think there's also something in there about if he actually did commit the required offence to be banned or if the adjudicators misinterpreted the laws.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I didnt really feel 'excited' enough about this tour to post about it before now. But i have to say the excitement is building again since the squads were announced. I've always said the WI Test series was always some of my fav ones (good job too considering how much we're gonna play them lately).

No real surprises in the Test squad. I think its ok to bring Rashid along as a backup ./ 2nd Spinner. Just dont play him as the lone spinner, he just isnt ready. Leaving Vaughan out was the right thing too, it was a bit silly that people thought he had a chance to be included considering how little cricket he'd played and how out of form he was when he did play. I really fancy us to stuff the WI in the Tests (hardly alone in that opinion i guess), but I would have liked to see Davies in there but im sure that will come if he does decently in the One day series......(to be fair Prior hasnt done too badly lately)

As for the one day squad. Its very much a bag of mixed emotions. On the one hand its great to see Davies in there, i've championed him long enough, so its about time he showed me up and did crap But im unhappy, if not shocked at how little change there is. We've been abysmal for years, and the Indian tour was just the icing on the cake. Yet we still stick to the same old rubbish thats failed and will no doubt continue to fail. Part of me hopes WIs stick it to us in this series just to force some selectors hands for the Summer Tests. But then knowing them we'll probably pick the same rubbish.

 

[Penguinissimo]

I don't think this point has been given suitable attention by all:

Before Shivnarine Chanderpaul made a first-ball duck in Napier recently, his previous nine Test scores had been 86* (v Sri Lanka), 118, 11, 107*, 77*, 79*, 50 (all v Australia) and 76 and 126* (v New Zealand). His Test average for 2008 was 101. But then we shouldn't be too surprised: in 2007 he averaged 111. And yet how many people would include him unthinkingly in their World XI? If England think their next six Tests are going to be a breeze, they can think again.

 

[Uppercut]

But, IIRC, most of his runs came once we were indisputably in the mire and he decided to swing the bat.

True, and I was at Lord's that day and was impressed with the way he took the attack to SA. I agree that if he'd got out for 20 we'd have been in a bit of trouble, and that it was a good knock - but in the context of the match as a whole, his innings wasn't that significant. And if you really want to be picky, he froze up like a rabbit in front of a truck when he got near his 200.

As a final point - if you take out his runs against Bangladesh, his average falls below 40 to 38-ish. I haven't yet done the calc if you take out WI and NZ as well, but I will do soon.

Hmm, nah, can't take anything away from those innings i'm afraid.

But i've made the exact arguments you're making now several times before. The man has to go.

 

[sammy2]

I don't think this point has been given suitable attention by all:

Before Shivnarine Chanderpaul made a first-ball duck in Napier recently, his previous nine Test scores had been 86* (v Sri Lanka), 118, 11, 107*, 77*, 79*, 50 (all v Australia) and 76 and 126* (v New Zealand). His Test average for 2008 was 101. But then we shouldn't be too surprised: in 2007 he averaged 111. And yet how many people would include him unthinkingly in their World XI? If England think their next six Tests are going to be a breeze, they can think again.

who wrote this ?