cricketers who have made the most of their talent

[krkode]

Possible to include Chanderpaul in this? I haven't watched him bat much but you always hear about how dodgy his technique is... seems like he just scores runs by doing whatever he can to NOT get out! Rather than being your typical decent test batsman averaging 45+...

 

[Rant0r]

Possible to include Chanderpaul in this? I haven't watched him bat much but you always hear about how dodgy his technique is... seems like he just scores runs by doing whatever he can to NOT get out! Rather than being your typical decent test batsman averaging 45+...

and he made a hundred against the aussies off like 60 balls, i'd like to see that again

 

[social]

What bowler/batsman has made the most of the talent he has or lack of it...

good english examples are KP Alastair Cook Sidebottom and Collywobbly

going abroad you got people like Stuart Clark and no other examples are coming to mind... help me out people

KP has masses of talent whilst Cook has dominated every level on the way up so it's clear that he's not short of it either

 

[NZTailender]

Ashwell Prince. Am a fan.

 

[Rant0r]

Ashwell Prince. Am a fan.

helped by quota, wouldn't have played otherwise, better than other quota beneficiaries like ontong though, but definitely made more runs than he should have

 

[social]

Generally top class test cricketers are ridiculously talented

Take the supposedly "short" Malcolm Marshall as an example - 95 mph, swinging the ball both ways and rated the best WI bowler by Boycott BEFORE he played a test match (btw, he was just under 6 foot, not a giant but hardly Tom Cruise)

 

[Kylez]

Are we talking about batting or bowling?

As for the thread, I think Matt Hayden and Justin Langer should get a mention.

Batting? It's Martin were talking about here :P

 

[Rant0r]

Generally top class test cricketers are ridiculously talented

Take the supposedly "short" Malcolm Marshall as an example - 95 mph, swinging the ball both ways and rated the best WI bowler by Boycott BEFORE he played a test match (btw, he was just under 6 foot, not a giant but hardly Tom Cruise)

had that front on action that defied the experts 'you need to be side on to swing the ball' theory that was copied by ntini

 

[Craig]

Batting? It's Martin were talking about here :P

As to which where he is now is as good as it is going to get for him?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Katich surely. 95% of his game is mental.

 

[Rant0r]

do you reckon there's been worse (martin) ? i'm struggling to think of any, bruce reid comes to mind, but i remember him hitting carl rackemann for consectutive sixes off the new ball in a sheild match, gold

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Chris Martin.

Him.

 

[Rant0r]

i heard someone on abc radio wondering why katich would make over 1000 runs for WA one summer then come back the nest season with this shuffling across the crease idea... spose you can't argue with the results, i reckon he's got tonnes of talent though

 

[roseboy64]

Possible to include Chanderpaul in this? I haven't watched him bat much but you always hear about how dodgy his technique is... seems like he just scores runs by doing whatever he can to NOT get out! Rather than being your typical decent test batsman averaging 45+...

Umm no. When he hits the ball he's pretty much technically correct.

Chris Gayle the obvious example.

 

[BoyBrumby]

i knew someone would mention hayden... do you think it's any coincidence his rise to prominence came at the same time that all the best opposition bowlers retired and were replaced with pop gun wielders ?

my idea of the thread is about players who have no right playing test cricket on talent alone, but do, and are quite successful, say a collingwood. not a bunch of blokes with talent oozing from their pores who succeeded, like ponting

what would be more interesting would be the player who has made the least out of their talent, say a craig mcmillan, or a host of englishmen

The usual suspects: Hick, Ramprakash, Harmison & Crawley too to an extent.

One Englishman who made the most of his talent who hasn't been mentioned so far is Graham Thorpe for mine. To see the great man in action he looked less extravagantly gifted than contemporaries like the aforementioned Messers Hick & Ramprakash, but placed a much higher value on his wicket and ground out the hard runs. The temptation is to attribute it to the mental side of his game, but Thorpey had some well-documented issues in that regard around the time of his marriage break-up, so maybe the difference is harder to pin down.

What is perhaps different with Thorpe is that he withdraw from a tour of his own volition when his head wasn't there, so I'd guess he knew the mental side of his game better than other more obviously talented batters & had the self-honesty to know when it wasn't there.

Another player who consistently makes the best of his talent (which is considerable anyway) is, of course, Mike Hussey. Witness today's innings. He can score good runs when he's not in absolutely prime nick and, as Tubby observed in the commentary, knows his game well enough to be able to adjust down thru the gears for a proper test innings.

 

[Craig]

The usual suspects: Hick, Ramprakash, Harmison & Crawley too to an extent.

One Englishman who made the most of his talent who hasn't been mentioned so far is Graham Thorpe for mine. To see the great man in action he looked less extravagantly gifted than contemporaries like the aforementioned Messers Hick & Ramprakash, but placed a much higher value on his wicket and ground out the hard runs. The temptation is to attribute it to the mental side of his game, but Thorpey had some well-documented issues in that regard around the time of his marriage break-up, so maybe the difference is harder to pin down.

What is perhaps different with Thorpe is that he withdraw from a tour of his own volition when his head wasn't there, so I'd guess he knew the mental side of his game better than other more obviously talented batters & had the self-honesty to know when it wasn't there.

Another player who consistently makes the best of his talent (which is considerable anyway) is, of course, Mike Hussey. Witness today's innings. He can score good runs when he's not in absolutely prime nick and, as Tubby observed in the commentary, knows his game well enough to be able to adjust down thru the gears for a proper test innings.

What about guys like Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan? When you look at Vaughan's FC record, can one not say he has made the most of his ability, and maybe over achieved (I didn't think he would hit that purple patch of run scoring).

IMO VVS Laxman has got a lot of his ability, considering the early stages of his career.

 

[BoyBrumby]

What about guys like Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan? When you look at Vaughan's FC record, can one not say he has made the most of his ability, and maybe over achieved (I didn't think he would hit that purple patch of run scoring).

IMO VVS Laxman has got a lot of his ability, considering the early stages of his career.

With Tres & Vaughan, I think both were identified as potential England test players at relatively early ages (both had played age-level stuff for us) and as such were shown a bit of faith by the (then) selectors when this promise hadn't immediately materialised in the county championship. Both were called up when their figures didn't really deserve much less demand it.

I think there's an argument that their test careers are probably fairer guides to their talent than their FC figures.

 

[krkode]

What about guys like Marcus Trescothick and Michael Vaughan? When you look at Vaughan's FC record, can one not say he has made the most of his ability, and maybe over achieved (I didn't think he would hit that purple patch of run scoring).

IMO VVS Laxman has got a lot of his ability, considering the early stages of his career.

I think Laxman was always fairly talented, in the wristy Azharuddin mold. The Indian selectors just sort of screwed with his career at the start by making him open the innings. I think I saw this statistic in his 100th test tribute thing, but if you take out all the matches where Laxman has opened, his average actually jumps to about 50.

 

[krkode]

With Tres & Vaughan, I think both were identified as potential England test players at relatively early ages (both had played age-level stuff for us) and as such were shown a bit of faith by the (then) selectors when this promise hadn't immediately materialised in the county championship. Both were called up when their figures didn't really deserve much less demand it.

I think there's an argument that their test careers are probably fairer guides to their talent than their FC figures.

Yeah, I think the thing with FC records can be tricky at times. The average decent county cricketer who plays most games will probably end up playing 200-300 FC games over the course of his career. If he even had 2-3 off seasons at the start of his career where he was still finding his form and improving, it would act as a permanent mark bringing down his FC record forever. Even if he turns into a test-level batsman after that bad early patch.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Derek Pringle made the best of his talent as he took wickets and scored runs in International Cricket without actually possessing any.