Can South AFrica end Australia's 13 year run as the best test team ?

[Craig]

I think the Scotland team has never recovered from the loss of Hamish Amla.

 

[Spinksy]

Soooo lost at the moment.

 

[gio]

I think the Scotland team has never recovered from the loss of Hamish Amla.

On another note, there is quite a bit of similarity between this SA side and the England one of '05, particularly in the bowling. However, Steyn and Ntini have to have good series, and Morkel has to be more steady. This is a very determined SA side, and I would not be surprised if they cause an upset.

 

[Bees]

Predictions for the SA team?

Smith
McKenzie
Amla
Kallis
Prince
AB
Boucher
Morkel
Nel/Harris
Steyn
Ntini

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Soooo lost at the moment.

His name is Hashim, not Hamish.

 

[Spinksy]

His name is Hashim, not Hamish.

Sorry, my bad.

 

[Richard]

I seriously hope no spinners are picked in this series. And if they are I hope they're all utterly flayed.

As to can SA win, well, this SA team is far less good than the ones of 1996/97/98 and 2001/02 that lost comfortably. Equally, Australia are clearly far less good.

I can't remember which grounds the games are being played on - if The WACA and The SCG are involved I can see SA having a chance there, because the ball will hopefully swing. Otherwise, the flat Australian pitches (presuming we get such things) should nullify most if not all of their bowlers. Of course, they should also enable SA to nullify most if not all of Australia's bowling, but Clark > all of SA's bowlers and Lee > them all too, though he like Steyn obviously depends a fair bit on swing. And if Australia manage to pile-up massive totals batting first then, well, we've seen more teams than you could wish to name fall in a heap in the face of that, even if Australia's bowling has been moderate.

 

[Neil Pickup]

His name is Hashim, not Hamish.

You're the last person who I thought would have explained that to him... is this a new Smith?

 

[Spinksy]

I seriously hope no spinners are picked in this series. And if they are I hope they're all utterly flayed.

As to can SA win, well, this SA team is far less good than the ones of 1996/97/98 and 2001/02 that lost comfortably. Equally, Australia are clearly far less good.

I can't remember which grounds the games are being played on - if The WACA and The SCG are involved I can see SA having a chance there, because the ball will hopefully swing. Otherwise, the flat Australian pitches (presuming we get such things) should nullify most if not all of their bowlers. Of course, they should also enable SA to nullify most if not all of Australia's bowling, but Clark > all of SA's bowlers and Lee > them all too, though he like Steyn obviously depends a fair bit on swing. And if Australia manage to pile-up massive totals batting first then, well, we've seen more teams than you could wish to name fall in a heap in the face of that, even if Australia's bowling has been moderate.

Agreed, both countries seem to be lacking in some areas and are far worse then what they used to be. To be honest though it kind of levels out the competition a bit and makes it equally exciting.

 

[Uppercut]

I seriously hope no spinners are picked in this series. And if they are I hope they're all utterly flayed.
.

SA didn't pick a spinner for this series either. They just picked someone who bowls 50mph nothing-breaks that bore irresponsible batsmen into doing something stupid.

IMO South Africa have been improving steadily for a while now, and Australia have been steadily declining. Australia are still a good bit better though- better at batting and considerably better at bowling. Will really enjoy this series though. India gave Australia a good run for their money not so long ago, and SA>India for my money.

 

[Richard]

You're the last person who I thought would have explained that to him... is this a new Smith?

He even said "apologies" to chalky in the Eng-SA thread, dunno if you spotted that.

Daniel Smith, what has happened to thee?

 

[Richard]

SA didn't pick a spinner for this series either. They just picked someone who bowls 50mph nothing-breaks that bore irresponsible batsmen into doing something stupid.

Funny how people say this about Harris despite not saying it about many other far worse spinners who spun the ball similarly little.

Richard Dawson for instance.

 

[sanga1337]

No don't think so. Australia's batting lineup is still very strong and while their bowling has declined its still very good with Lee and Clark. Should be a lot closer than last time though and I can't wait to watch Dale Steyn bowl to the Aussie batters

 

[Uppercut]

Funny how people say this about Harris despite not saying it about many other far worse spinners who spun the ball similarly little.

Richard Dawson for instance.

Indeed. But that doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Swervy]

Funny how people say this about Harris despite not saying it about many other far worse spinners who spun the ball similarly little.

Richard Dawson for instance.

Richard Dawson spun the ball a lot more than Harris does didnt he?

 

[Top_Cat]

I seriously hope no spinners are picked in this series. And if they are I hope they're all utterly flayed.

As to can SA win, well, this SA team is far less good than the ones of 1996/97/98 and 2001/02 that lost comfortably. Equally, Australia are clearly far less good.

I can't remember which grounds the games are being played on - if The WACA and The SCG are involved I can see SA having a chance there, because the ball will hopefully swing. Otherwise, the flat Australian pitches (presuming we get such things) should nullify most if not all of their bowlers. Of course, they should also enable SA to nullify most if not all of Australia's bowling, but Clark > all of SA's bowlers and Lee > them all too, though he like Steyn obviously depends a fair bit on swing. And if Australia manage to pile-up massive totals batting first then, well, we've seen more teams than you could wish to name fall in a heap in the face of that, even if Australia's bowling has been moderate.

The only people who've ever swung the ball in Perth are blokes prepared to bowl into the Doctor late in the day. Terry Aldermann, Damien Fleming, etc. Couldn't imagine any of the Saffies being pleased about let alone willing to willing to cut back on pace a bit to get the movement. Takes a certain sort who can dispense with the macho crap.

And Lee didn't really bowl with a lot of swing against SL and India at home. He's a bit too quick. Only RP Singh did and even then his swing wasn't that consistent. Most of Lee's wickets were due to the pressure he put on, good lengths, smart bowling, etc. That why although Steyn was a little ahead in wickets taken last year, people rate Lee's wickets much higher; he wasn't dependent on the conditions at all to take wickets, was always threatening and was bowling to high-class, in-form batsmen on the flattest of decks.

As for whether South Africa can win it, it'll depend on a few things I reckon. As is usual with Australia, good opening partnerships put them on the back-foot. They're not used to being behind in the game and if Smith and MacKenzie can consistently put up good numbers, even if they're, say, 0/60 at lunch on day 1 of a Test, they'll put the Aussies under the pump.

The test of SA's grinding game will be against this Aussie side; Lee and Clark are attacking bowlers who give away nothing so the pressure will be right on. If they get through those two bowlers, the middle-order will be free from the pressure to score and Kallis lives for situations like that. If they lose early wickets, Amla, De Villiers and Prince will be right under pressure and I, personally, don't know if they have it in them to score well in that situation without giving a few chances.

Further increasing the pressure to score is that South Africa, after Boucher, have 4 number 11's in Steyn, Ntini, Harris and Morkel with another one (Nel) in the wings. Unless Morkel's brother is given a go, that lower-order looks very fragile and if there's historically been another bane of Aussie existence, it's lower-order partnerships. 6/300 will turn to 310 all out pretty frequently which further increases the pressure on the middle order not only to score freely but to put a high price on their wickets.

Personally, I tip Steyn vs Ponting to be the key match-up. Steyn bowls that away swing that gets Ponting even when set but if he slips anywhere near middle, I don't reckon Ponting will be as easy to clean-bowl as Vaughan and will get milked in through the leg-side. Aside from that, I reckon this series will be a real battle of a attrition if SA play well or a fairly easy Aussie win if they don't. Tipping Mick Clarke for a very big season.

 

[Napier16]

Richard Dawson spun the ball a lot more than Harris does didnt he?

Not really. He barely ever got it off straight over there in the Ashes.

Although he gave it more air than Harris and flighted it.

 

[Swervy]

Not really. He barely ever got it off straight over there in the Ashes.

Although he gave it more air than Harris and flighted it.

yeah...although I have seen Dawson really tweak it of the pitch a few times, I just cant remember where.

For me, Dawson was a better bowler than Harris is now

 

[Uppercut]

Nor do I to be honest, what makes them soooo different to the last side? The Fact that they have Hamish Amla? I think not. Because they have Dale Steyn? I think not. It will be a tight, don't you worry but what amkes people certain that South Africa will beat us? Link I said 'Australia are a strong side that usually pull though in these situations were another nation is hot on their tail in pursuit to get the #1 ranking in the world.' and I still stand by that.

I do think this team is a lot more mature, plays better as a team, and has more character than the previous team. Isn't their record now 7 wins and a draw from their last 8 series? Also, their players appear to be approaching their peaks and this Australian side has been on the decline for a while now.

Still expect Oz to win, but should be a closer series than the last for sure.

 

[Dissector]

The last time SA were in Australia they were quite competitive and could easily have drawn the series 1-1 if they had taken a few important catches. This time they are a better team with a settled unit that has won a lot of series together and Australia is obviously worse off after the retirement of Warne and McGrath. So I can easily see South Africa winning.

Their main weak link is obviously Paul Harris. Fortunately in Albie Morkel they have a near-perfect replacement for him. Bringing him in for Harris will strengthen the batting and possibly the bowling as well. Plus as Arjun will tell you he can hit big sixes.