Deadly Matty
Cricket Spectator
What out of 10 do you think of Shane Warne?I think 10/10.
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Rate Him: Shane Warne
- Thread starter Deadly Matty
- Start date
Dissector
International Debutant
8/10. A terrific bowler but he had a near-perfect setup: great batting line-up which would pile up the runs in all conditions, a superb and accurate fast-bowler who would make the early break-throughs and keep things quiet and a top notch fielding side. In that context his career average of 25.4 isn't super-impressive. Ultimately I think the careers of Murali and Hadlee were far more challenging and more impressive in their results.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Great bowler. But:
1. Banned for taking prohibited diuretics.
2. Incredibly big gob.
3. Wildly overrated in terms of his impact on cricket. Wrist spin bowling wasn't a "dying art" when he emerged as is often lazily claimed (Mushy and Kumble had already begun their Test careers, Murali was waiting in the wings, and Qadir's international career had yet to end) and he has left no discernible legacy such as a stream of Australian wrist spinners to follow him. As for making cricket "cool", which is sometimes claimed, well he didn't - cricket simply isn't cool and never will be.
4. As Dissector points out, everything around him was loaded in his favour.
1. Banned for taking prohibited diuretics.
2. Incredibly big gob.
3. Wildly overrated in terms of his impact on cricket. Wrist spin bowling wasn't a "dying art" when he emerged as is often lazily claimed (Mushy and Kumble had already begun their Test careers, Murali was waiting in the wings, and Qadir's international career had yet to end) and he has left no discernible legacy such as a stream of Australian wrist spinners to follow him. As for making cricket "cool", which is sometimes claimed, well he didn't - cricket simply isn't cool and never will be.
4. As Dissector points out, everything around him was loaded in his favour.
Burgey
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1. Yep. Did the crime, did the time.
2. Yep. Got him heaps of wickets too.
3. DWTA. he had a huge impact on cricket here, and i mean huge.
4. DWTA to an extent - he was a big part of why things seemed to be stacked in their favour. Australia no more scored 550 plus every time they batted during his career than WI always bowled sides out for 50 in the 80s.
2. Yep. Got him heaps of wickets too.
3. DWTA. he had a huge impact on cricket here, and i mean huge.
4. DWTA to an extent - he was a big part of why things seemed to be stacked in their favour. Australia no more scored 550 plus every time they batted during his career than WI always bowled sides out for 50 in the 80s.
Aamir Alauddin
Banned
1- As a player he understands the cricket very very well. He was under-rated as his abilities to be the Australian Captain and he has proved that in IPL by leading a very young, inexperienced side. He is a great motivator for his team.
2- As a bowler i think his record speaks itself. The greatest leg spinner the world has ever produced.
3- As far as his irresponsible behavior is concerned, i equally blame to team mnagement and ACB who could not motivate him. He was overlooked and under-rated by the ACB. Ponting was never a better choice for Captain as compared to Warne. Responsibilities make you more responsible.
2- As a bowler i think his record speaks itself. The greatest leg spinner the world has ever produced.
3- As far as his irresponsible behavior is concerned, i equally blame to team mnagement and ACB who could not motivate him. He was overlooked and under-rated by the ACB. Ponting was never a better choice for Captain as compared to Warne. Responsibilities make you more responsible.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
1. No dispute there. But many other great players didn't take banned substances. He's less great in my eyes because of it.
2. Take away those wickets and you're left with a rather less impressive record. A bowler taking wickets purely with skill rather than with his gob is a greater bowler imo.
3. OK then - but still over-rated as regards his effect on spin bowling.
4. Australia had a superb batting line-up throughout his career, and the greatness of McGrath for most of it.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
If Warne's greatness is taken away because of his great batting line-up, Sir Viv's greatness as a batsman is taken away because of the awesome bowling unit that was within his team, not to mention some fine batsman around him as well.
Truth is they are both all time greats, and it shouldn't be diminished because there were other greats around them too.
Truth is they are both all time greats, and it shouldn't be diminished because there were other greats around them too.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I agree they're both all-time greats. However you can't assess their records fairly without having regard to the context in which they achieved those records.
And there's not the slightest doubt that both Richards and Warne benefitted from the (other) great players who played with them.
And there's not the slightest doubt that both Richards and Warne benefitted from the (other) great players who played with them.
sideshowtim
Banned
As a bowler, I believe your record can be damaged by having great bowlers around you. Warne had less wickets up for grabs with so many awesome bowlers around him taking them too.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair point. However there was an advantage to him in having McGrath, specifically, bowling with him because of the control which he (like Warne) was able to exert. There's no doubt whatsoever that they were a great pair of bowlers as well as being great players in their own right.
The strength of the Australian batting was more of a factor though imho. Runs on the board messes with batsmen's heads and creates wickets for the bowlers, and Warne frequently benefitted from this (although he was clearly capable of taking wickets in less favourable circumstances too).
The strength of the Australian batting was more of a factor though imho. Runs on the board messes with batsmen's heads and creates wickets for the bowlers, and Warne frequently benefitted from this (although he was clearly capable of taking wickets in less favourable circumstances too).
Yeah probably, guess a bit ignorant for me to not think about the world instead of just this country.
Would have to have a mild impact on perspective of cricket in other countries though lol, himself being so attention grabbing anyway... even if he doesn't do anything that out.
I mean he has a sort of rockstar attitude that you wouldn't accustom to for cricketers.
Dissector
International Debutant
Actually that would be an entirely legitimate argument IMO which is why I would rate Viv at 8/10 as well and below Lara and Tendulkar. Having a great opening pair is a huge advantage for any middle-order batsman and having bowlers who routinely demolish the opposite side will put the opposing captain on the defensive when you are batting.
Viv and Warne are very similar in that their "aura" tends to get them overrated compared to their achievements IMO. Not surprisingly they tend to provoke the most furious arguments among cricket fans as well.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair enough.
sideshowtim
Banned
Well Tendulkar hasn't exactly had a pack of duds around him for most of his career...Actually that would be an entirely legitimate argument IMO which is why I would rate Viv at 8/10 as well and below Lara and Tendulkar. Having a great opening pair is a huge advantage for any middle-order batsman and having bowlers who routinely demolish the opposite side will put the opposing captain on the defensive when you are batting.
Viv and Warne are very similar in that their "aura" tends to get them overrated compared to their achievements IMO. Not surprisingly they tend to provoke the most furious arguments among cricket fans as well.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
But what made Warne "Warne" was not that he was consistently great (although he was) because he had a superb batting line-up to support him. What made him great was when no one in the side could hold it together he ended up changing the match, turning it on it's head, and in the most dramatic fashion. I've never witnessed a bowler do the "unbelievable" as many times as Warne. I've never witnessed a cricketer affect a game merely by being in it.
At the end of his career when Warne had gone over major surgeries, lost a lot of his different balls and spin, he was taking wickets with mere determination and the colossus that is his personality. I was wrapped up more in a game watching Warne bowl spin than watching any other fast bowler. I've never seen a bowler do what Warne did in 2005 against England, yet still lose.
There will never be a cricketer as far ahead of the rest statistically like a Bradman; but in terms of importance to a side, impact on a match/series, consistent brilliance under in the pressure-cooker situations...there is only one Warne.