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**Official** New Zealand in England

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
A few months ago in a thread here I tried to compare claiming a catch which has not carried to a number of different things in other sports. The conclusion I came to was that cricket was different at a fundamental level. Take rugby league for example - a sport created in England and not played at any serious level in America. Cheating is not only accepted but applauded: if you can get your hands in the ruck and rake out the ball without the referee noticing, you're a hero. If you can stand two metres offside in the ref's blind spot and put a massive hit on your opposing number, your fans will cheer your name and wax lyrical about the great play..
Bingo. Same thing here. If one my linebackers knocked out the opposing quarterback in the superbowl with a slightly late hit, I wouldn't mind one bit. He'd be a hero around town. I suspected it wouldn't be isolated to the US.
 

profernity

U19 Debutant
I disagree. At a professional level, of sports I've followed to a semi-serious degree, only cricket attempts to maintain this.

A few months ago in a thread here I tried to compare claiming a catch which has not carried to a number of different things in other sports. The conclusion I came to was that cricket was different at a fundamental level. Take rugby league for example - a sport created in England and not played at any serious level in America. Cheating is not only accepted but applauded: if you can get your hands in the ruck and rake out the ball without the referee noticing, you're a hero. If you can stand two metres offside in the ref's blind spot and put a massive hit on your opposing number, your fans will cheer your name and wax lyrical about the great play. This sport has nothing to do with America at all but holds the same values you claim are unique to the country.

The spirit of cricket is a concept unique in professional sport. Whether it should exist up for some debate, but it's not a case of only American sports not carrying it through. Personally, I like it - the spirit of cricket is one of the deepest roots into cricket's history and one of its longest lasting traditions - it's part of what makes the game what it is and the fact that it is survived up until now is a credit to the game and its followers. I do, however, think it is on its last legs as there are already several exceptions which are seemingly just accepted and that list seems to be slowly growing.
TBH, I think the concept of being in the spirit of the game is something which can still be seen in motorsports, although like with cricket it is being swept away.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
TBH, I think the concept of being in the spirit of the game is something which can still be seen in motorsports, although like with cricket it is being swept away.
And not a moment too soon. The sport will be a better place after people stop having a chance to act holier than thou when it suits them, and playing the 'it's professional cricket' card when it doesn't.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I disagree. At a professional level, of sports I've followed to a semi-serious degree, only cricket attempts to maintain this.

A few months ago in a thread here I tried to compare claiming a catch which has not carried to a number of different things in other sports. The conclusion I came to was that cricket was different at a fundamental level. Take rugby league for example - a sport created in England and not played at any serious level in America. Cheating is not only accepted but applauded: if you can get your hands in the ruck and rake out the ball without the referee noticing, you're a hero. If you can stand two metres offside in the ref's blind spot and put a massive hit on your opposing number, your fans will cheer your name and wax lyrical about the great play. This sport has nothing to do with America at all but holds the same values you claim are unique to the country.

The spirit of cricket is a concept unique in professional sport. Whether it should exist up for some debate, but it's not a case of only American sports not carrying it through. Personally, I like it - the spirit of cricket is one of the deepest roots into cricket's history and one of its longest lasting traditions - it's part of what makes the game what it is and the fact that it is survived up until now is a credit to the game and its followers. I do, however, think it is on its last legs as there are already several exceptions which are seemingly just accepted and that list seems to be slowly growing. AFAIC, not walking when you know you've hit it is against the spirit of cricket. I can understand why batsmen do not walk and I don't disrespect them for it - I don't even walk myself - but it doesn't fit in with those traditional set of values. By extension, appealing when a batsman does not work is against the spirit of cricket, as is even appealing for an lbw you wouldn't give out yourself (at an absolute stretch, admittedly). These morally questionable run outs and claimed catches are the next step up but they'll soon become the norm. At an age of fully professional sports with so very much at stake all the time, the spirit of cricket will take a back seat.
Yeah, obviously you ramp up the rewards, you're going to see more win-at-all-costs mentalities. Part of the reason such high paydays aren't good at all for the game.

I didn't mean, BTW, to suggest that the US of A is alone in being of the winning > fair-play mindset, simply that American followers of cricket are likely to take a different attitude to those from other countries. There's still much crying foul at unfair play (sometimes trying to manufacture non-existant unfair play in fact) in just about every regular cricket country. Of course, it's not the same in other sports in those same countries - you mention the League example, I (or anyone) could say the same thing about football in this country. Diving is the most obvious example, but there are others. Stuff that has been prevalent for as long as I can remember, and which I've no intention of trying to find when it first started. Fair play is often non-existant, and despite the fact that some people complain, many revel in it, as long as it brings the results. I highly doubt you'd see the sort of reaction we saw earlier this thread, when 6 or 7 UK posters started saying "I want NZ to win now" after the run-out incident, in any other sport - including those very same posters who follow other sports.

What we need more than anything in cricket is to try and do things that cut-out the rewards for unfair play. It's, obviously, never going to be possible to make this absolute, but to take one of the examples you mention - walking. If we make all Umpiring decisions regarding catches at the wicket correct (which is possible to do, unlike lbws) then you make not walking a completely useless tactic. There are other means of unfair play that can be cut-out in similar ways - a more transparent law on contact for instance. This ties in a little with something mentioned by Scyld Berry in his Wisden notes this year, though the subject was not exactly the same, but it would also solve this problem, or at least give a better chance of it than we currently have:
Originally Posted by Scyld Berry
To prevent batsman and bowler barging into each other, I suggest the ICC should experiment with trial games in which the groundsman cuts two extra strips, each one a couple of metres away from the match pitch. The non-striker has to run up and down his strip, like the lane of a motorway, and has the right of way there - ahead of bowler or fielder - but nowhere else. Perhaps the striker, to have right of way, has to run up and down the other strip. In any event, the rights of way should be defined more clearly than they are. Also, impeding a fielder's throw by deliberately getting in the way of the ball should be re-assessed for what it is: obstructing the field, and therefore "out".
TBH, I'd be happy that the moment the Umpire adjudges there has been contact between batsman and fielder which has interfered with play in any way, dead-ball is called. No runs, no wickets (unless the batsman has obstructed dismissal).
 
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social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, and you'd be in a tiny minority there. Possibly it's the Yank influence, but again possibly not, as I'm sure not all those in the US of A sport that sort of attitude.

In most of the rest of the countries of this Earth, fair play > winning. The US of A is an exception.
The English Premier League is made up of conmen masquerading as footballers from the 4 corners of the globe and cheered on by an audience of billions
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Is Collingwood now in doubt for the last game and 3 games against Saffas? Talking about ban coming his way for slow over rate.
No doubt about it - he's out of the final game against NZ, the 2020 game(s) against SA and the start of that 50 over series.

Makes a big differece to our middle order in the final game. Likeliest bet seems to be Cook opening with Bell, Shah moving up to 5 and Wright batting at 6.

Still the thought of Smith having to walk out with KP at the start of the SA series is one to treasure.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
OK, now read my post lower down.
Ok sorry

Unfortunately, your latter suggestion is fine in theory but its' implementation would take decades and a complete culture change to boot.

For example, golf is the game with possibly the highest ethical standards and its' leading practitioners are also amongst the world's highest earning sportsmen so the 2 are not mutually exclusive

Cheats are basically drummed out of the game and players are deemed to be responsible for their own actions

However, this a massive exception to the norm and its debatable whether other sports are the equivalent of turning around the Queen Mary
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Ok sorry

Unfortunately, your latter suggestion is fine in theory but its' implementation would take decades and a complete culture change to boot.

For example, golf is the game with possibly the highest ethical standards and its' leading practitioners are also amongst the world's highest earning sportsmen so the 2 are not mutually exclusive

Cheats are basically drummed out of the game and players are deemed to be responsible for their own actions

However, this a massive exception to the norm and its debatable whether other sports are the equivalent of turning around the Queen Mary
Golf's a great example actually. Hadn't thought of that one.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Golf's a great example actually. Hadn't thought of that one.
Compare golf to cricket or football

In cricket, 9/10 batsmen who score a hundred after not walking are applauded all the same i.e. no incentive to walk

In football, most blatant incident I can think of was when the Italian dived in the final seconds of the last WC against Oz and conned the ref (who subsequently retired btw) and saved his team from penalty shoot-out. His fate was adoration by tens of millions of his countrymen and a WC winners medal.

Football's boat has well and truly sailed
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
That would be interesting. I don't really see him as the captaincy type, but maybe he'll prove me wrong.
KP confirmed as captain : "It's been a dream of mine."

Thoughts? 8-)

I'd assume Cook will be back with Wright shifted back down?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
That would be interesting. I don't really see him as the captaincy type, but maybe he'll prove me wrong.
Aye, me neither. Occasionally the least likely make excellent choices (a couple of recent possible examples being Dhoni and Gayle). But Pietersen strikes me immediately as someone who is as far from captaincy material as you get.

Either way, good that Collingwood is only going to miss 2 ODIs.
 

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