Flem274*
123/5
Merchant is only rated because he's Australian. Whoopie-doo. If he was any good the Aussies wouldn't have let ND steal him.
And Greg Hay is no fast bowler anyway so that doesn't count.
Who's the opener? I'm guessing its Watling?
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**Official** New Zealand in England
- Thread starter James
- Start date
And Greg Hay is no fast bowler anyway so that doesn't count.
Who's the opener? I'm guessing its Watling?
Athlai
Not Terrible
Odd team considering you have never been a big supporter of Taylor at 3, and Elliot's presence is most troubling.Man me and Athers should be defence lawyers. We're getting pretty good at defending the Black Caps.
Flynn, How and McCullum in the top order isn't a bad idea, all three have lots of talent and some guts as well.
And if we want to select a REAL bits and pieces player, I vote Brendan Diamanti. Grant Elliot is just a pretender I reckon (waits for Heaths response).
Leslie, Hay is not expendable. He owns ANY ND batsman you care to name, oh wait, you have none now Flynns gone, guess you'll have to settle for Marshall.
MY team for the next game:
Howitzer
McCullum
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Flynn
Elliot
Vettori
Mills
Mason
Patel
I know I said Flynn would be a good idea up top but we already have plenty of top order blokes and Flynn has quite the SR in List A.
Watling - needs a few more domestic seasons...
Just a few months ago, and I know this is nothing to go by, he scored the highest triple century batting for his local club ever in NZ. So I heard on the radio when the FC was in full swing.
Then again, our first class is littered with stories of 'talented' batsmen but whether they get picked at the right time is another story.
Our international team tends to destroy careers, not make them.
Just a few months ago, and I know this is nothing to go by, he scored the highest triple century batting for his local club ever in NZ. So I heard on the radio when the FC was in full swing.
Then again, our first class is littered with stories of 'talented' batsmen but whether they get picked at the right time is another story.
Our international team tends to destroy careers, not make them.
S.P. Fleming
U19 Cricketer
yea well over in wellington were oozing with talent in the batting department:
- M. Parlane
- N. Parlane
- C. Nevin
- L. Wookcock
- M. Bell
- DEWAYNE BOWDEN
and of course the famous Grant Elliott
- M. Parlane
- N. Parlane
- C. Nevin
- L. Wookcock
- M. Bell
- DEWAYNE BOWDEN
and of course the famous Grant Elliott
Flem274*
123/5
Flem274*
123/5
Gold
Flem274*
123/5
And it shows in the results.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
Yeah, but thats not saying much.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Wouldn't agree with that. Why would you want to drop Shah fron # 6 when of late he has made this very key ODI position his own. Flintoff overall IMO batted higher @ 6 & 5 in the past mainly due to the fact the the ODI side really lacked much quality in the middle order thus Freddie's impetus was impertive early. Now that we have the likes of Collingwood, Shah & potentially Bopara in a settled position @ 4, Freddie can just be himself coming in @ 7 with 10-15 overs left & have a license to thrill...
Yes either way the lower other will be strong but IMO ENG like AUS & IND need to maximize out depth so for a middle-lower order order (# 5 to 9) of:
Collingwood
Shah
Flintoff
Mascarenhas
Swann
Is absolutely fantasitc, now if Ambrose (although i rate him) has to bat @ 7 although the lower order will still be strong, will not make the perfect side.
Thats why i reckon maybe if the selectors have lost faith in Prior & don't want to persist with Mustard give Ambrose a go @ the top seems to have a decent techniqe & is a free-flowing player.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Its not an obsession its pretty much left down to the influence Gilly has left TBH. Its a proven fact in modern day ODI's having your keeping to open once he has the game & does a decent job of it gives sides a great balance. They don't have to be Gilly like but its worth a try.
ENG have found themselves in a similar situation to NZ & PAK with i'm sure in a perfect world those sides wouldn't want to have McCullum & Akmal to open.
But given with NZ due to retirements that have dented the top-order leaving only the middle order has their strenght they had to send him up & thanfully for them he has come through because i personally always felt after seeing McCullum all these years he wouldn't last a day as an opener.
With PAK well you know the story they never have any good openers since Anwar left & with their middle to lower order being their strenght Akmal has been forced to open albiet with mixed results.
Well it certainly didn't come across that way on the international circuit. Come on Rich you saw him play for ENG when he playing before last year did he look international quality with the bat?
Last year whatever he did he certainly looked a solid batsman & much more deserving of a place.
Prior has always been a poor one-day batsman. I've never rated him in the longer form all that much either, but especially in the one-day game he is poor. I never wanted him anywhere near ODIs,
I never wanted him to be near the side period until i saw a GREAT batting improvement last year which certainly wasn't present before. His domestic record (if you are correct) may have been pretty average but he certainly didn't look out of place opening last summer vs IND as i said he got starts.
Now if he hadn't got injured in SA & gotten a chance in SRI ODI's & didn't drop those two crucial chances in the Galle test losing the selectors confidence, thus going to NZ, theirfore having a complete winter opening & failed i would have no problem moving on from him. But AFAIC the jury is still very much out on Prior, just needs to prove to the selectors that his glovework can be depended on since his batting is pretty much on par with Ambrose.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
well ATM i only think AUS & IND can put out a better middle to lower order than that.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Having your wicketkeeper open gives a side no more balance than having him bat six or seven. You still need batsmen to perform these roles. It doesn't matter whether it's a wicketkeeper-batsman opening and a specialist at six or a specialist opening and a wicketkeeper-batsman at six. Both roles still need to be performed.
I've said it before, but if any team is hankering after Gilchrist they're displaying utter stupidity. And I sincerely hope they're not as trying to manufacture Gilchrists is fruitless, he's a once-in-several-generations player. You must play to your own strengths, not try to manufacture strengths out of weaknesses.
BTW, I've always felt Pakistan had a potentially excellent ODI opening batsman in Salman Butt and he's always been twice the batsman Kamran Akmal will ever be.
He's not supposed to be a solid batsman (not that he looked particlarly impressively solid anyway) though, he's supposed to be someone who can smash a quick 30 or 40 maybe 3 innings out of 5 or so. But 1) he wasn't scoring remotely quickly and 2) he wasn't often even making that many. He was neither performing the role he was supposedly supposed to perform nor looking like doing anything else, IMO.
Improvement from what though? IMO he looked no better in ODIs in 2007 than he did in 2005/06. Nor have I thought he looked any better in domestic-OD cricket at any point, really.
I think maybe you might be judging a bit too much on his Test batting - and given Prior never batted in a televised First-Class game before his Test debut, almost everyone will never know whether there was any improvement there.
Prior has always been a poor OD batsman IMO, and I've never seen any great improvement.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Fair point I suppose. I'd be tempted to suggest that South Africa with Duminy, Boucher, Morkel, Morkel and Nel was better, but the presence of Swann over Nel probably makes England better or at least potentially better with more games on the behalf of a few of the players. Pakistan are interesting:
5. Malik
6. Misbah
7. Afridi
8. Fawad
9. Sohail
Very much in England's situation with a few players in that group who have performed recently but it being unproven both as a unit and with a few players individually.
I think it's more a case of a lot of teams restructuring that middle/lower order just after the World Cup than England's options being awesome, though. Not long ago, New Zealand ha
had this:
5. Styris
6. Oram
7. McCullum
8. Franklin
9. Vettori
Which is certainly better than what England are putting out at the moment. South Africa's was clearly better too with the presence of Pollock, Kemp and sometimes Hall and Pakistan had Inzamam and Razzaq amongst it.
It certainly has a fair bit of potential anyway. Of much, much, much more importance, though, is the platforms that must be set by your top order and your opening bowlers. Wright and, to a lesser extent, Anderson remain genuine areas of concern and Bopara is hardly set in stone at 4 either. I'd like to see Trott there anyway, but it's not the point - the point is that that middle group of players won't be very effective if they're constantly having to dig England out of crap caused by their top order and/or opening bowlers.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I reckon Fawad would come out if there was still a significant amount of overs for him to bat, but there hasn't been since he made the team. I'd send Afridi out ahead of Alaw if there were only 5 overs left in the innings too..Absolute nonsense that Fawad is batting below Afridi.Echoes of Gavin Ewing.
The very fact that he's being selected as a bowler primarily is a bit how's-your-father though, especially given the fact that Afridi and sometimes Malik bowl before him.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It's absolutely ridiculous. Either pick him and give him a role of some use or just leave him out completely because his great-grandfather played for India pre-partition and there have been enough Fawads playing for Pakistan or team-that-was-then-Pakistan or whatever nonsense it is that's getting him this lack of favour.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Elliott's officially named in the eleven. Not quite sure how I feel about it. He has a more compelling case than any other allrounder, really, but that very fact is extremely worrying in itself. I can definitely see his bowling going the journey and I'd definitely have more faith in an out-of-form Fulton than Elliott with the bat as well.
Best of luck to him though - I hope he goes well.
Best of luck to him though - I hope he goes well.