Who's better, Lillee or Hadlee?

[silentstriker]

Indeed, at least not as clear as it has been made out to be. It is being presented as if the gap between the two bowlers is beyond any comparison.

I don't think its beyond comparsion - though I do think it is still pretty clear. Obviously, others look at it differently.

 

[Sanz]

I don't think its beyond comparsion - though I do think it is still pretty clear.

Isn't that statement contradictory ?

Also, I hope your opinion isn't based on stats alone.

 

[social]

Ambrose was similarly unimpressive; McGrath too was unimpressive against the best opposition he faced, South Africa; and Wasim was simply not in Donald's class IMO, though I've never yet taken an in-depth look at his record.

I cannot believe any Pakistani who has seen both Imran and Wasim bowl will rate the latter the better.

Fit and experienced McGrath dominated SA just as he did with everyone else

Donald looked the goods but lacked that something extra which separated the very good from the great. Dominated by Oz, in a relative sense, who preyed on his mental frailty

IMO, Wasim was the most talented bowler (leftie, express, swung it everywhere with old and new ball) but an erratic genius. As an example, he never cured his no-ball problem despite an almost leisurely run to the wicket

Imran was the ultimate professional and deserves to be rated with Wasim for that. However, no doubt he protected his average towards the end of his career

 

[silentstriker]

Isn't that statement contradictory ?

Not really. I think Tendulkar is clearly ahead of Dravid but I don't think they are beyond comparison.

Also, I hope your opinion isn't based on stats alone.

It isn't. In fact, going by stats, it's much much closer than what I think of them as.

 

[Richard]

Fit and experienced McGrath dominated SA just as he did with everyone else

Donald looked the goods but lacked that something extra which separated the very good from the great. Dominated by Oz, in a relative sense, who preyed on his mental frailty

McGrath never lacked fitness when facing South Africa and after he became a Test-class bowler he averaged 26 against South Africa. Donald when fit and Test-class averaged 27 against Australia. Those who hold one against one and not the other against the other are either hypocrites or don't understand the game. Donald > McGrath.

IMO, Wasim was the most talented bowler (leftie, express, swung it everywhere with old and new ball) but an erratic genius. As an example, he never cured his no-ball problem despite an almost leisurely run to the wicket

Imran was the ultimate professional and deserves to be rated with Wasim for that. However, no doubt he protected his average towards the end of his career

And that's what's called "sensible". If you're going to bowl rubbish, don't bowl. In any case, I have the sense to exclude the last few Tests of Imran's career when assessing him as a bowler anyway, as well as the first 4.

 

[Richard]

Also, I hope your opinion isn't based on stats alone.

No-one with any sense has an opinion of anyone based on stats alone. And equally, no-one with any sense has an opinion based completely without looking at stats.

 

[archie mac]

Didn't we have a poll between Wasim and imran? And didn't Wasim come out in front?

I thought Wasim the better bowler and a big claim as the greatest left-arm speedster of all time

 

[Sanz]

Imran was the ultimate professional and deserves to be rated with Wasim for that. However, no doubt he protected his average towards the end of his career

He protected ?

He just didn't need to bowl with the talents at his disposal like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Aquib Javed, Salim Jaffer, Mushtaq Ahmad.

 

[Richard]

Didn't we have a poll between Wasim and imran? And didn't Wasim come out in front?

I thought Wasim the better bowler and a big claim as the greatest left-arm speedster of all time

Yeah, we did. Said a fair bit about a few things, but above all IMO the fact that there's a very small Pakistani contingent on CW.

My current one I think will hopefully demonstrate a few things better.

 

[Son Of Coco]

McGrath never lacked fitness when facing South Africa and after he became a Test-class bowler he averaged 26 against South Africa. Donald when fit and Test-class averaged 27 against Australia. Those who hold one against one and not the other against the other are either hypocrites or don't understand the game. Donald > McGrath.
And that's what's called "sensible". If you're going to bowl rubbish, don't bowl. In any case, I have the sense to exclude the last few Tests of Imran's career when assessing him as a bowler anyway, as well as the first 4.

That's a big call. Although I think you might be playing favourites again. Cork > McGrath (Interestingly, Cork looks a bit like a mini-Donald).

 

[Richard]

Why'd'you think I like them both so much?

Anyway, nah, McGrath > Cork very comfartably, obviously.

But while Donald and McGrath can barely be split achievement-wise, I think Donald the more multi-skilled bowler, and hence by a very small amount the better.

And nah, I don't "play favourites" TBH. Pointless thing to do.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Why'd'you think I like them both so much?

Anyway, nah, McGrath > Cork very comfartably, obviously.

But while Donald and McGrath can barely be split achievement-wise, I think Donald the more multi-skilled bowler, and hence by a very small amount the better.

And nah, I don't "play favourites" TBH. Pointless thing to do.

Because you're a pretty vigorous supporter or them both...Donald I can understand.

I don't agree that Donald was more multi-skilled. The idea that seems to have been bandied about on here quite a bit on a few threads recently that McGrath just put it on the spot and hoped for the best (and I'm not saying that's exactly what you think) is laughable, and that's being kind. To be able to announce who you were going after in each series and then 9/10 make them your bunny for the series points to more than just an ability to be accurate. McGrath could produce exactly what was needed to dismiss all types of batsmen on hundred upon hundreds of occasions. Atherton is a prime example of someone who was a victim of this. I think Donald was a very good bowler too. In fact, I liked watching them both bowl.

 

[Richard]

McGrath was indeed far more multi-dimensional than most gave him credit for, and could indeed use most of the standard weapons available to bowlers.

However, so could Donald, plus a couple of others that McGrath didn't. And he did it more often. So therefore, while McGrath was certainly far from a one-trick pony, I rate Donald the more multi-dimensional.

 

[silentstriker]

Donald is to McGrath what Sehwag is to Hobbs.

 

[Richard]

TBH I've always found your McGrath-fetish and Donald-hate truly bizarre.

 

[funnygirl]

Donald >>> every other bowler on the planet

Richard ur opinion ,i respect ,but u seem to make all others forcefully believe what u believe ,do u think that is possible .

 

[funnygirl]

Ambrose was similarly unimpressive; McGrath too was unimpressive against the best opposition he faced, South Africa; and Wasim was simply not in Donald's class IMO, though I've never yet taken an in-depth look at his record.I cannot believe any Pakistani who has seen both Imran and Wasim bowl will rate the latter the better.

Donald was more fitter and had more stamina than Wasim ,thats all .As far as the skill ,Wasim comfortably . Donald could never bowl the kind of beauties those Akram was able to .If u think that Mcgrath looked one dimensional in comparison with Donald ,i would say Donald looked one dimensional in comparison with Wasim.ofcourse my opinion.
BTW i don't hate Donald ,in fact one of my all time favourites.

 

[funnygirl]

TBH I've always found your McGrath-fetish and Donald-hate truly bizarre.

I don't find ur Donald -fetish bizaree ,but ur Wasim -hate is unbelievable .

 

[Richard]

Donald >>> every other bowler on the planet

Richard ur opinion ,i respect ,but u seem to make all others forcefully believe what u believe ,do u think that is possible .

Nope, not remotely so. And no, I don't believe Donald was as good as Malcolm Marshall, and certainly no better than Richard Hadlee either. Nor Imran Khan.

 

[Richard]

I don't find ur Donald -fetish bizaree ,but ur Wasim -hate is unbelievable .

Wasim-hate? The guy was a fantastic, fantastic bowler - it just so happens recently he's been compared to two of the very few bowlers I think were better than him, in Imran and Donald.