Who is better Imran Khan or Glenn Mcgrath?

[Dissector]

The point is that McGrath managed to maintain his consistency and performance even while playing a huge amount of test cricket which is why I said longevity "in tests". It's especially striking in comparison to younger bowlers who seem to break down every few months these days.

The other point is about easier batting conditions. If you discount the achievements of batsmen in the last 6-7 years because of this it's only fair to put give extra credit to bowlers who performed in this era.

 

[funnygirl]

I thought we were only talking about Test cricket?

In ODIs, they cannot be compared, as the game Imran played was not the same as the one McGrath did.

I wasn't talking about ODIs ,but Mcgrath played in an era of more ODIs which can affect fast bowlers fitness and efficiency .

 

[Richard]

The point is that McGrath managed to maintain his consistency and performance even while playing a huge amount of test cricket which is why I said longevity "in tests". It's especially striking in comparison to younger bowlers who seem to break down every few months these days.

But Imran played a huge amount of Test cricket too. Both 77 and 113 games are a huge number.

The other point is about easier batting conditions. If you discount the achievements of batsmen in the last 6-7 years because of this it's only fair to put give extra credit to bowlers who performed in this era.

Of course it is. But such conditions were fairly stock-in-trade for most of Imran's home career too. And he did even better than McGrath.

 

[Richard]

I wasn't talking about ODIs ,but Mcgrath played in an era of more ODIs which can affect fast bowlers fitness and efficiency .

ODIs require far, far less testing of fitness than Tests. It's well possible to bowl for several games in a row "within yourself" if you're of the very highest class. And McGrath did. And it was obvious he was on several occasions, too.

 

[funnygirl]

.

Of course it is. But such conditions were fairly stock-in-trade for most of Imran's home career too. And he did even better than McGrath.[/QUOTE

If he was that good in batting pitches ,he should be even better in seaming conditions ,didn't he ?

 

[Richard]

And if he had been he'd possibly have been irrefutably the greatest (at worst second-greatest after SF Barnes) bowler ever.

What he did was more than enough for me to class him as where I class him, though. His superlative performances on dead wickets and very good ones on more seam-friendly ones qualify to me as better than someone who has performed superlatively on greentops and decently on utterly dead pitches.

 

[funnygirl]

What about neutral venues like

Imran in England ,Mcgrath in England
Imran in India ,Mcgrath in India(A thorough subcontinental batting paradise )
Imran in NZ,mcrath in NZ
Imran in Sl ,Mcgrath Sl
...............................

 

[JBH001]

And I assure you - if you can, I can show you large numbers of McGrath wickets that came from poor strokes - whole matches between 2001 and 2004/05 where, on non-seaming wickets (which formed all bar about 3 or 4 Tests), he didn't take a single wicket with a wicket-taking delivery.

Richard, no offense. But that is a nonsensical argument. Most wickets from most bowlers are not taken by "wicket taking" deliveries, in fact usually (depending on the batsman concerned and conditions) wicket taking deliveries (by that I take it you mean jaffas or similar) do not take wickets.

Interesting thread though, and a difficult choice.

 

[archie mac]

Having had the pleasure of watching them both bowl, it appeared that Imran was clearly the better bowler, but McGrath and his record is pretty impressive, still i will trust my eye

 

[JBH001]

Thats what is going through my mind as well, AM.

I have seen quite a few clips of Imran bowling at his best, and have followed McGrath through his career and seen him at his best. It does seem to me that Imran was better, especially in the middle portion of his career, even if the stats favour McGrath.

I have yet to make up my mind though.

 

[archie mac]

Thats what is going through my mind as well, AM.

I have seen quite a few clips of Imran bowling at his best, and have followed McGrath through his career and seen him at his best. It does seem to me that Imran was better, especially in the middle portion of his career, even if the stats favour McGrath.

I have yet to make up my mind though.

Imran was clearly quicker, bowled a great yorker and outswinger (plus some reverse swing), and watching both, you would think Imran in a different class, but obviously it is different out in the middle.

I also wonder if in Imran's day the batsman were much more cautious, and would have waited on GM, he seemed to get a lot of batsman out through the batsman trying to take control

Still you have to keep coming back to that record

 

[bond21]

McGrath, no contest

 

[bond21]

Doesnt matter that McGrath doesnt swing it, hes the most accurate bowler of all time and he made the batsman play every ball

 

[Sanz]

Doesnt matter that McGrath doesnt swing it, hes the most accurate bowler of all time and he made the batsman play every ball

Has anyone doubted Mcgrath's ability to succeed ?

 

[Anil]

the khan for me...

 

[Malleeboy]

McGrath had less pace, less swing and I always thought there was far more destructive and talented bowlers around, but the guy could bowl on a dime and just seemed to get wickets (even if at times I wonder exaclty how he worked batsman over with just such limited bowling).

Surely a title that might best describe McGrath might be "the most remarkable unremarkable bowler in test history".

 

[social]

McGrath had less pace, less swing and I always thought there was far more destructive and talented bowlers around, but the guy could bowl on a dime and just seemed to get wickets (even if at times I wonder exaclty how he worked batsman over with just such limited bowling).

Surely a title that might best describe McGrath might be "the most remarkable unremarkable bowler in test history".

Have a look at the hat-trick McGrath took against the Windies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJvqL4_O6w

There's an analysis of it somewhere by Buchanan that describes how McGrath had run through each of those batsmen and nominated their weakness before the game.

Come game time, he delivered the 3 totally different deliveries that he believed would get them in trouble and a hat-trick was the result

Sums him up really

 

[Son Of Coco]

Until someone can show me significant proportions of Imran wickets that obviously came due to incorrect Umpiring decisions, I'm not going to take any note of that. As I say previously - pure conjecture. There is nothing obvious like there is with Javed Miandad's diplomatic immunity from lbws.

And I assure you - if you can, I can show you large numbers of McGrath wickets that came from poor strokes - whole matches between 2001 and 2004/05 where, on non-seaming wickets (which formed all bar about 3 or 4 Tests), he didn't take a single wicket with a wicket-taking delivery.

 

[bond21]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5wsTcONIJ6w

watch that. What Mark Nicholas says is true about his whole philosophy is to hit the top of off stump.

KISS theory - Keep it simple stupid.

 

[Ikki]

Have a look at the hat-trick McGrath took against the Windies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJvqL4_O6w

There's an analysis of it somewhere by Buchanan that describes how McGrath had run through each of those batsmen and nominated their weakness before the game.

Come game time, he delivered the 3 totally different deliveries that he believed would get them in trouble and a hat-trick was the result

Sums him up really

Reminds me of the little over replays they have and they show where the ball pitched and where it ended up. You watch one of McGrath's and you get it. He pitches 6 balls within inches of each other and each one seams drastically in a different area for that batsman. How do you face that? Extraordinary.