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**Official** New Zealand in England

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Panesar continues to be utterly toothless against someone who can hold a bat on anything but a bunsen, 32 overs and counting without a wicket now in a county match. I'm sure Test nations are quaking in their boots knowing this contributor of sod all is a fixture in England's side.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
MSP was dire in New Zealand, and the English players were so over his dire fielding, he also brings nothing with the bat, get a decent spinner England FFS.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
If Vettori gets a double hundred in a test I'll remove the signature, which some Kiwis object to. For now, I stick to my narrow minded view that he's a ticking timebomb, he will probably bear the grunt of criticism during this tour for being a liability with the bat (form slump and English figuring how to get him out), the ball and his captaincy.
Your signature is a deadset ****ing joke. As I said elsewhere, I'm sure you know SO much more than Vettori about Southee's talent with a bat. At least you appreciate your view is idiotically narrow-minded, I suppose.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Just a few things I'd like to add.

Jacob Oram is the best Test batsman we have got.
Mills, Franklin, Martin, Oram, Southee/whoever is better than Mills, Franklin, Oram, Martin/Southee/whoever and Vettori. As far as batting goes.
McCullum should not be burdened with opening the batting, keeping wicket and captaining ODI cricket. He's not even a Test class wicket-keeper batsman so why on Earth anybody would consider making him captain is beyond me.
Leslie1 - your signature seems to speak loads about your character and knowledge. Far from flattering son.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Your signature is a deadset ****ing joke. As I said elsewhere, I'm sure you know SO much more than Vettori about Southee's talent with a bat. At least you appreciate your view is idiotically narrow-minded, I suppose.
In the test arena, my narrow minded view about Vettori our oh so great captain is not idiotic.

It's just narrow minded. I hope he opens up the critics' mind and shut them up, preferably with devastating spells in bowling rather than the bat. To maintain him as this status quo to be respected player in tests is ironic considering he poses no threat with the ball. He's a poorman Andrew Symonds in tests, if it weren't for his so called captaincy.

As for Southee, yes, his first innings batting is shocking considering he came in with Hadlee's endorsement as the next Chris Cairns. But Vettori playing that shot, IS THAT A TEST CRICKET SHOT? Are you telling me if Fleming gets out like that you will give him as much leeway? How the hell is that not a brain explosion moment? He played it to JIMMY ANDERSON for freaking sake who in that test was bowling pies. AND he played it TWICE the first one being a no-ball and Anderson figuring it out the second time so dropped it short.
 
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Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
As for Southee, yes, his first innings batting is shocking considering he came in with Hadlee's endorsement as the next Chris Cairns. But Vettori playing that shot, IS THAT A TEST CRICKET SHOT? Are you telling me if Fleming gets out like that you will give him as much leeway? How the hell is that not a brain explosion moment? He played it to JIMMY ANDERSON for freaking sake who in that test was bowling pies. AND he played it TWICE the first one being a no-ball and Anderson figuring it out the second time so dropped it short.
Oh for god's sake, the match was over. There was no point in playing sensibly anymore. Vettori was just having trying to have a bit of hit and giggle before the end.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Hit and giggles belong in 20 20. A test aint over till you get 10 wickets. Or at least that's what I thought. Where is the tenacity to never say die in a situation like that?

Sure it's no Astle but good god Southee's hitting towards the end was as close as it gets if Vettori had bothered to stay in. :@

Sometimes I think winnable tests are the ones we should be putting in the sort of tenacity and character to win considering how dire we are in tests to start with. It's just so we can stop the numbness we feel when we are away from home getting "as per usual" test spanking.
 
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Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Are you telling me if Fleming gets out like that you will give him as much leeway?
If Fleming was in the same situation, faced with the prospect of getting another 200 runs with two "bunny-looking" batsmen, of course I would.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Sure it's no Astle but good god Southee's hitting towards the end was as close as it gets if Vettori had bothered to stay in. :@
And if Vettori had "bothered" to stay in, it's highly unlikely Southee would have batted the way he did. And if he had, and had got out, then you'd be having a go at home for not sticking with his captain.

They can't win with you, can they?
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Hit and giggles belong in 20 20. A test aint over till you get 10 wickets. Or at least that's what I thought. Where is the tenacity to never say die in a situation like that?

Sure it's no Astle but good god Southee's hitting towards the end was as close as it gets if Vettori had bothered to stay in. :@

Sometimes I think winnable tests are the ones we should be putting in the sort of tenacity and character to win considering how dire we are in tests to start with. It's just so we can stop the numbness we feel when we are away from home getting "as per usual" test spanking.
Southee's hitting was hit and giggle. I don't think anyone was expecting that innings.


Hindsight is a wonderful, thing isn't it? 8-)
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Hit and giggles belong in 20 20. A test aint over till you get 10 wickets. Or at least that's what I thought. Where is the tenacity to never say die in a situation like that?

Sure it's no Astle but good god Southee's hitting towards the end was as close as it gets if Vettori had bothered to stay in. :@
Southee's got no technique whatsoever. He could've got out at any time. No one, literally no one, could've predicted that he'd start wacking sixes. And even if Vettori had stayed in, it's kind of difficult to have seen Southee keep riding his luck for another 130 runs.

Face it, it was time for Vettori to make runs anyway he could. He's not a traditional slogger like McCullum, so he tends to try and do it in more inventive ways. He did it extremely successfully in the first innings at Wellington, but I didn't hear you for slagging off his batting in that match.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
In the test arena, my narrow minded view about Vettori our oh so great captain is not idiotic.

It's just narrow minded. I hope he opens up the critics' mind and shut them up, preferably with devastating spells in bowling rather than the bat. To maintain him as this status quo to be respected player in tests is ironic considering he poses no threat with the ball. He's a poorman Andrew Symonds in tests, if it weren't for his so called captaincy.

As for Southee, yes, his first innings batting is shocking considering he came in with Hadlee's endorsement as the next Chris Cairns. But Vettori playing that shot, IS THAT A TEST CRICKET SHOT? Are you telling me if Fleming gets out like that you will give him as much leeway? How the hell is that not a brain explosion moment? He played it to JIMMY ANDERSON for freaking sake who in that test was bowling pies. AND he played it TWICE the first one being a no-ball and Anderson figuring it out the second time so dropped it short.
Vettori has really just started his captaincy in tests. I don't think anyone has called him a great captain, and he his very much in a 'wait and see' period.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Tell me then, who is?
Oram's been a failure with the bat for the past two years in test cricket. Vettori is light years ahead of him, McCullum is making more runs (even if he's spending about the same amount of time at the crease), and Taylor is also now ahead of him in my esteem. Probably our most experienced, with Fleming and Styris gone, and that in and of itself is of a lot of value, but he's still a long way from the top.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
And if Vettori had "bothered" to stay in, it's highly unlikely Southee would have batted the way he did. And if he had, and had got out, then you'd be having a go at home for not sticking with his captain.

They can't win with you, can they?
Actually extreme provincial bias (ironic) would have easily made me more receptive to a ND debutant having a go. Vettori is the senior statesman. The least he could have done is stay in with a not out on a flat deck. If he got out to a Sidebottom special, I have no qualms. Commentators use "uncanny" to describe Vettori batting, I call it "ticking timebomb" in tests.

As you said 200 to get, what value would he have gotten playing an agricultural backflick to the keeper aside from a 4 out of 200.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
That wasn't an "agricultural" backflick. You don't appear to know what an "agricultural" shot is.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Oram's been a failure with the bat for the past two years in test cricket. Vettori is light years ahead of him, McCullum is making more runs (even if he's spending about the same amount of time at the crease), and Taylor is also now ahead of him in my esteem. Probably our most experienced, with Fleming and Styris gone, and that in and of itself is of a lot of value, but he's still a long way from the top.
Didn't realise how true this was. He has been rather disappointing with the bat in the last 2 years in test cricket (mind you, he's played just 9 tests in those two years).

I don't think Vettori is a 'better' batsman than Oram, but yet he's been scoring far more runs.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Oram's been a failure with the bat for the past two years in test cricket. Vettori is light years ahead of him, McCullum is making more runs (even if he's spending about the same amount of time at the crease), and Taylor is also now ahead of him in my esteem. Probably our most experienced, with Fleming and Styris gone, and that in and of itself is of a lot of value, but he's still a long way from the top.
Taylor is 23 and we are calling him our most experienced batsman. I'm going to try and stop moping about the lack of any adequate batsmen aside from the picked hopefuls on a whims. :laugh:




I BLAME SINCLAIR FOR NOT STEPPING UP. :@
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Actually extreme provincial bias (ironic) would have easily made me more receptive to a ND debutant having a go. Vettori is the senior statesman. The least he could have done is stay in with a not out on a flat deck. If he got out to a Sidebottom special, I have no qualms. Commentators use "uncanny" to describe Vettori batting, I call it "ticking timebomb" in tests.
Setting aside the fact that just patting the ball back to the bowler and waiting for the opposition to skittle your tail is based on fairly questionable logic, don't you think then that that reasoning suggests Tim Southee played attrociously?
 

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