Vivian Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar

[Ikki]

Chennai pitch was pretty helpful for pacers esp on the 4th/5th day. Kolkata was as pace friendly pitch as I have seen anywhere else in the world. Only pitch that was not helpful to fast bowling was Delhi.

Besides Sydney pitch where Ponting scored 197 isn't really a pacer's delight by any means.

Perth, mate, Perth. A new one added to the list, you even got the wrong ground now.

 

[biased indian]

Ricky Ponting failed miserably in the most alien condition he had to face in his life ....he has 4 test coming up to redeem him self if he don't do that and still end up with a less than 25 career avg..in india..sorry he will never come as a All Time Great Batsmen IMO

 

[biased indian]

Seriously, am I being too complicated or are you missing the point?

Ponting is poor against India...but only in India. And how many tests is that, only 8.

thats all most par what a batmen can hope to play in a life time aganist a particular country

he has only played more test away aganist england in his life time not that he has played very few test aganist india only

 

[biased indian]

Perth, mate, Perth. A new one added to the list, you even got the wrong ground now.

ya perth where Australia had a strangle hold over sub continental team which was only broken this year by a good team :cool

 

[Ikki]

Ricky Ponting failed miserably in the most alien condition he had to face in his life ....he has 4 test coming up to redeem him self if he don't do that and still end up with a less than 25 career avg..in india..sorry he will never come as a All Time Great Batsmen IMO

By the same token, Tendulkar can never be then either.

thats all most par what a batmen can hope to play in a life time aganist a particular country

he has only played more test away aganist england in his life time not that he has played very few test aganist india only

That's not the point mate. The point is in comparison to Tendulkar - which you've omitted in your reply - Ponting fails in 8 tests, Tendulkar 20 Tests (with regards to the Saffies) and failed another 7 pre-2000 against Pakistan and, funny enough, some against Zimbabwe too.

Really, the contention is indefensible. Have you ever looked at Sobers' record, for instance? Would you try tell me he is not an all-time great because he failed against New Zealand in New Zealand AND at home - which is worse than Ponting's India record. That in 12 tests (18 innings) he managed only 1 century.

If you also think Sobers is not an all-time great, at least you're being consistent. But if you do, then you should have a poster of Ricky Ponting on the wall and you should change your username to "Biased Punter".

ya perth where Australia had a strangle hold over sub continental team which was only broken this year by a good team :cool

The series in question is almost a decade ago - when Perth was a much different pitch.

And yes, definitely, India is a very good team.

 

[Dasa]

Player A has done brilliantly against all opposition bar two, against one of whom he's been average and against the other been very poor. Player B has done brilliantly against all opposition, home and away, but for one team against whom he's been somewhat less than brilliant. Player C has been magnificent against most opposition, bar one team against whom he has been brilliant at home but poor away, and another against whom he has been good at home and average away. Who is the better player?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Player A has done brilliantly against all opposition bar two, against one of whom he's been average and against the other been very poor. Player B has done brilliantly against all opposition, home and away, but for one team against whom he's been somewhat less than brilliant. Player C has been magnificent against most opposition, bar one team against whom he has been brilliant at home but poor away, and another against whom he has been good at home and average away. Who is the better player?

Derek Pringle.

 

[Dasa]

Hard to disagree with that.

 

[biased indian]

By the same token, Tendulkar can never be then either.

He already is one ponting still has to wait... sorry some reality are hard to digest

That's not the point mate. The point is in comparison to Tendulkar - which you've omitted in your reply - Ponting fails in 8 tests, Tendulkar 20 Tests (with regards to the Saffies) and failed another 7 pre-2000 against Pakistan and, funny enough, some against Zimbabwe too.

so avg in 30 is treated as failure ..what is the term that should be used to some one avg below 13 ???

Really, the contention is indefensible. Have you ever looked at Sobers' record, for instance? Would you try tell me he is not an all-time great because he failed against New Zealand in New Zealand AND at home - which is worse than Ponting's India record. That in 12 tests (18 innings) he managed only 1 century.

If you also think Sobers is not an all-time great, at least you're being consistent. But if you do, then you should have a poster of Ricky Ponting on the wall and you should change your username to "Biased Punter".

Where did sobers came into this..i was saying this all the while for you saying that tendulkar struggled aganist SA and pak..and u still want to have sobers in i will treat tendulkar>sobers as batsmen but sobers >>>tendulkar as a all round cricketer..

 

[Ikki]

Player A has done brilliantly against all opposition bar two, against one of whom he's been average and against the other been very poor. Player B has done brilliantly against all opposition, home and away, but for one team against whom he's been somewhat less than brilliant. Player C has been magnificent against most opposition, bar one team against whom he has been brilliant at home but poor away, and another against whom he has been good at home and average away. Who is the better player?

That's not confusing at all.

 

[Ikki]

He already is one ponting still has to wait... sorry some reality are hard to digest

Haha, indeed, reality is hard to digest. Sachin is already one, despite having failed in more places than Ponting?

so avg in 30 is treated as failure ..what is the term that should be used to some one avg below 13 ???

Very poor. But Ponting doesn't average 13 against India, he averages 49.

The difference is someone averages about 30 regardless where he plays (home and away), he just has a problem against that team and their players. Whereas the other guy averages only 13 away and 79 at home against the same team. So his problem is only away against that team. The rest of his record is also better than the first guy .

Where did sobers came into this..i was saying this all the while for you saying that tendulkar struggled aganist SA and pak..and u still want to have sobers in i will treat tendulkar>sobers as batsmen but sobers >>>tendulkar as a all round cricketer..

No, but you said averaging poorly in an alien condition means you cannot be an all-time great batsman. Sobers is considered an all-time great batsman and he has a worse record against New Zealand than Ponting does against India.

The fact is, pretty much all batsmen have some weak record in an 'alien condition'. Doesn't stop them from being all-time great batsmen, otherwise there wouldn't be more than 2-3 of them.

 

[archie mac]

I must say I think Sachin the better, but I still think Ponting a great batsman

 

[biased indian]

I must say I think Sachin the better, but I still think Ponting a great batsman

No body is disputing Ponting is great i have never.....

But if asked to name my top 5 Batsmen ponting wont figure in it......and i am sure wont be in many others..who have ..the courage to agree that other countires also do produce quality sportsmen

 

[archie mac]

No body is disputing Ponting is great i have never.....

But if asked to name my top 5 Batsmen ponting wont figure in it......and i am sure wont be in many others..who have ..the courage to agree that other countires also do produce quality sportsmen

Who said that?

 

[biased indian]

Who said that?

Not you

was just referring to some one who is hell bent on proving that ponting is the second greatest batsmen after bradman

 

[bagapath]

Haha, indeed, reality is hard to digest. Sachin is already one, despite having failed in more places than Ponting?

dont harp on sachin failing in south africa and pakistan. he has 3 centuries in south africa and one in pakistan which was an unbeaten 194.

ponting has been averaging 13 in india over three different series. if sachin's overall record againt SA and Pak is not great (it is not, I agree) , then Ponting's record in India is crap. dont equate those two cases.

let ponting score at least one hundred in india and take his overall average in the country above 30 (it can not go above 40) then you can consider comparing his indian record with sachin's against SA and Pak.

 

[Burgey]

Derek Pringle.

Dave Mohammed ftw.

 

[duffer]

Christ, Kazo I knew you were a Ponting slurper but this is ridiculous.

 

[Ikki]

dont harp on sachin failing in south africa and pakistan. he has 3 centuries in south africa and one in pakistan which was an unbeaten 194.

ponting has been averaging 13 in india over three different series. if sachin's overall record againt SA and Pak is not great (it is not, I agree) , then Ponting's record in India is crap. dont equate those two cases.

let ponting score at least one hundred in india and take his overall average in the country above 30 (it can not go above 40) then you can consider comparing his indian record with sachin's against SA and Pak.

But that is failing. You can score 2 centuries in 20 test matches, it's still failing. That's why his average there just sneaks past 30.

Mate, in the eras in question Sachin didn't score a century in Pakistan either. That's not the point. The point is if you're talking about Ponting being weak against one country at their home, that point is conceded. The argument is over how much you wish to sway that into meaning Ponting is inferior when not only is Sachin poor overall against certain opposition, he is also away. That means that the record is poor two-fold. For whatever trouble Ponting has in India, at home against the same bowlers he has absolutely no trouble - he average 79 for heaven's sake. Thus overall and at home he is more than good enough. It is simply one facet in one country - repeated for the 100th time already.

If you still think that Sachin's record is better, that's fine, although it's quite baffling and pretty illogical to me. Bigger argument being, Sachin had an inferior record than Ponting does now and was given his halo, and he's still considered better despite being behind a number of batsmen in this era as well. At the least they're close and I am fine with people picking either way. But the dismissive crap regarding Ponting is just uninformed, especially considering the criteria they hold for Sachin also holds for Ponting and they're still dismissive.

 

[duffer]

If India had played more Test cricket when Sachin was at his true peak record would be scary. Having watched both batsmen play at their peaks Sachin wins it every time for me. It's not the blue tinted specs talking either.