Vivian Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar

[Migara]

Chandrasekhar, Prasanna, Bedi, Mushtaq Mohammad, Adul Qadir... not good spinners?

Rarely remeber Richards "murdering" them as he used to do with faster bowlers. Spinners had he lid on him generally.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Any comparison in terms of ability to play spinners is very moot at best. Indian batsman are brought up on wickets more condusive to spin and as a result become more adept in the art of playing spin bowling.

 

[silentstriker]

Any comparison in terms of ability to play spinners is very moot at best. Indian batsman are brought up on wickets more condusive to spin and as a result become more adept in the art of playing spin bowling.

So does that mean they get a free pass against fast bowling?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

So does that mean they get a free pass against fast bowling?

No, they cost $30 on the Black Market.

 

[Ikki]

Rarely remeber Richards "murdering" them as he used to do with faster bowlers. Spinners had he lid on him generally.

Wouldn't say that all, he did very well against India (who were the main spinners of his day) and did reasonably well against Pakistan (who had good spinners but were more troubling with their swing/seam bowlers).

 

[Manee]

Any comparison in terms of ability to play spinners is very moot at best. Indian batsman are brought up on wickets more condusive to spin and as a result become more adept in the art of playing spin bowling.

In the context of Tendulkar though, he went from school cricket and junior representative cricket, which he bossed and so learnt little from - almost straight to international cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

No, they cost $30 on the Black Market.

I'll take it.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I'll take it.

It'll arrive in a plain brown envelope, similar to the one's that your porn magazines are delivered in.

 

[Sanz]

Mark my words. 20 years down the line, people are going to look back at their careers and the attacks they faced, and sensibly wonder what led to people rating Viv ahead of Tendulkar. For some people currently, swashbuckling Viv is their abiding memory, while the dominant Tendulkar of the 90s might not have existed at all. Its ridiculous that people are throwing in words like legacy when one of the players isn't even finished yet. Nothing like the passage of time to add gloss to a body of work.

NO, It has been 20 years since I watched Viv in full flow and have watched Tendulkar at his best. I dont think my opinion is going to change.

 

[honestbharani]

Wasn't there a time when Sachin had a demoralizing effect on his opponent bowlers? Ask Shane Warne.

"I'll be going to bed having nightmares of Sachin just running down the wicket and belting me back over the head for six."

To be completely honest, he is pretty much the ONLY one to have ever said such things about Sachin.


Don't get me wrong, Sachin is all class and everything. It is just that except for a period in the 90s and the odd game every year and a half, he doesn't always let himself go berserk a la a Richards, Lara, Gilchrist or Sehwag do. Not really sure if it is bad or good because no one can argue with his results and he generally is a pretty brainy guy ( at least about his own game) and usually works out the best way to deal with any situation while batting and then plays that way, instead of playing HIS way all the time.


I am not even sure Sachin has any real definitive style of batting that he can call his own, tbh. And to me, that is one of the stand outs about Sachin... If he was in my XI, he could basically take over any role in the side... From being the grafter to being the annihilator... But the thing is, he never really played one mode repeatedly and this, at least to me, has ended up giving the impression that, in test cricket atleast, there is no style of batting that can be called "The Sachin way" like you can do with the other 4 guys I have already mentioned.


Juz want to make it clear that I don't mean that as a criticism at all. There are any number of ways to make runs and at the end of the day, Sachin still remains a match winner for India and that is what counts.

 

[honestbharani]

That simply isn't true. Recall (and this is merely the best of the not-particularly-extraordinarily-extensive list I've seen with my own eyes) Motera in 2001/02, when England's seamers bowled a long way outside off - Tendulkar easily picked balls through the leg-side, including hitting 3 fours in an over from Hoggard, from deliveries well outside off. He had this capability - he just knew that, by-and-large, he would be greater for keeping it in the locker.

Also recall how there were times when Tendulkar completely carried his batting-line-up. Lara occasionally (whenever Chanderpaul was unfit) did this later on too - and it's no coincidence that he rarely tried to be so unorthodox at these times. Richards had the benefit, almost through his entire career, of knowing that all did not come close to resting on him. Tendulkar, even when Dravid joined the side, was always the standout in his team to a level Richards only very briefly in his career was. So Richards always had far more licence than Tendulkar to play in a "they're not going to bowl at me" fashion.

Sorry, Richard...... There is no way you are going to convince me that Sachin carried his team more than Lara did.....



India were always a very very good batting side at home... Sachin was the star and the best, but the others were more than handy, esp. given some of the sides we faced in the mid to late 90s...... The only real quality side we faced were possibly the Walsh led Windies (who beat us), Hansie lead Saffies (we won mostly coz of some bad umpiring in 96 and were walloped in 2000, in the fixing year)... I really don't remember any other really good side we faced at home. England and the excuses they brought for spinners were laughable and the 98 Aussie side wouldn't have won much anywhere... Paul Wilson opening the bowling says it all.. Kasper was nowhere near the bowler he went on to become and the likes of Robertson would have struggled to make Ranji sides..... You are making a mountain out of a molehill about Sachin carrying our batting.


Remember that as a youngster, he walked into a side with Manjrekar, Azharruddin, Shastri etc. as well..... Again, not great quality batsman but no way were they so bad that he had to carry them... He did carry them in away tests because most of them almost never performed in tours but that is the extent of it. And again IIRC, we didn't even tour much 94-96.... And in 96, Sourav and Dravid emerged. I am sure Lara had some good batsmen around him too, but for me, he was easily carrying more of a load than Sachin in that regard.


It is one point I always want to bring up to people who point out how Lara scores big in drawn or dead matches. The fact is, in most of those games, if he hadn't scored, they would have lost them too, instead of being draws...... That is how much they depended on him...

 

[ret]

To be completely honest, he is pretty much the ONLY one to have ever said such things about Sachin.


Don't get me wrong, Sachin is all class and everything. It is just that except for a period in the 90s and the odd game every year and a half, he doesn't always let himself go berserk a la a Richards, Lara, Gilchrist or Sehwag do. Not really sure if it is bad or good because no one can argue with his results and he generally is a pretty brainy guy ( at least about his own game) and usually works out the best way to deal with any situation while batting and then plays that way, instead of playing HIS way all the time.


I am not even sure Sachin has any real definitive style of batting that he can call his own, tbh. And to me, that is one of the stand outs about Sachin... If he was in my XI, he could basically take over any role in the side... From being the grafter to being the annihilator... But the thing is, he never really played one mode repeatedly and this, at least to me, has ended up giving the impression that, in test cricket atleast, there is no style of batting that can be called "The Sachin way" like you can do with the other 4 guys I have already mentioned.


Juz want to make it clear that I don't mean that as a criticism at all. There are any number of ways to make runs and at the end of the day, Sachin still remains a match winner for India and that is what counts.

How would you describe the batting style of say Javad Miandad or the Zimbabwean great Dave Houghton? If you put the fine leg up then they would hit the ball to fine leg .... if you put the mid-on/off up, the ball would go over that .... thats art, dude and thats 'Sachin's way' and probably even 'Bradman's way'

 

[honestbharani]

Although I am unaware of the standards and quantity of video analysis in the 1970s and 1980s, Tendulkar has been subject to more plans than any other batsman of the age, from off theory to outside leg stump by Ashley Giles.

Interestingly, Tendulkar averages an astonishing 63.55 in an Indian won Test, in comparison to Richards' 52.43 - Tendulkar's innings have proved more vital to his team's victory - of course, this may be due to Tendulkar's superior conversion rate of fifties to hundreds but it also underlines that Richards' biggest knocks did not necessarily demoralise an opponent into defeat.

However, I have watched clips of Sir Viv batting and it is quite amazing how he would batter the ball with a flourishing flow of the bat. He clearly had magnificent hand-eye coordination. One thing I have noticed is that he scored about 90% of his runs through the leg side, with a large proportion of the off side runs coming off a premeditated in-to-out shot; would it be right to assume that the bowling was more stump to stump orientated in the 1970s and 1980s? If this is the case, which I don't know, then I believe that Tendulkar would have similarly dominated, since we all know of his prowess in the leg side, especially early in his career.

Cracking poll results, 50% to 50%.

that is just plain funny mate........ Lara, for one, has had as much, if not more, analysis done on him and his technique.... And pretty much every batsman today goes through that.... That is hardly a reason to put someone ahead of someone.



And juz because we have videos to analyze means zilch as long as you don' have the men good enough to execute the plans....


My above points are very much generic and can be applied to any great from the 80s compared to any great of the present generation.....

 

[honestbharani]

How would you describe the batting style of say Javad Miandad or the Zimbabwean great Dave Houghton? If you put the fine leg up then they would hit the ball to fine leg .... if you put the mid-on/off up, the ball would go over that .... thats art, dude and thats 'Sachin's way' and probably even 'Bradman's way'

you just said it yourself, it is NOT unique. AT least, not as unique as a Lara or a Gilchrist or a Richard or even a Sehwag. And again, it s not a criticism at all....

 

[ret]

troll alert

 

[honestbharani]

Lol, that's proof enough that arguing with you on the merits of a cricketer is useless. Hard to argue with such bias.

You've made it clear on these boards you're on some campaign to ensure that Ponting is rated as some holy legend, and will denigrate one of the greatest batsman ever seen (and acknowledged by Bradman and many other experts) to try and push your theory.

No point even arguing with you when Ponting's name comes up, because he can do no wrong.

It is pure blasphemy not to include SST when making a post about people following the Holy Grail of "Ponting is the greatest" theory....

 

[honestbharani]

troll alert

care to explain?

 

[honestbharani]

Well, Sir Viv himseldf said Sachin is 99.5 % perfect.

Add to that Brian Lara's 99% and tag of "best".

And while i respect the poster's individual choice here, i value these former greats' words more than anyones.

Add to that Warne's nightmare remark.

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And to the guy who said He's not even the best in his era, that's really funny, coz, his era is simply unfinished business. Let's start talking about era and stuff when a player call it quits. And if the choice is Brian Lara, then the great man himself would blush, for most of his memorable performances came in dead rubbers, and on home soil. And if the other choice is Ricky Ponting, ask Bhajji and look up his record in India, against spin. And that leaves the perennially underrated Jaques Kallis, and he's found wanting against Australia and in England.

so care to reel off Sachin's match winning centuries away from home??????????????????

 

[ret]

care to explain?

with tons of post against Sachin from his batting style to him not carrying the batting, it's clear that you are trolling and add to that the statements like the one below

you just said it yourself, it is NOT unique. AT least, not as unique as a Lara or a Gilchrist or a Richard or even a Sehwag. And again, it s not a criticism at all..

.

you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a Gilly's style or a Sehwag's style can be tagged into one category. they are not mutually exclusive .... and 'Sachin's way' is 'Bradman's way' as subscribed by the great Bradman himself

Definately, a case for sounding a troll alert

 

[honestbharani]

with tons of post against Sachin from his batting style to him not carrying the batting, it's clear that you are trolling and add to that the statements like the one below

.

you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a Gilly's style or a Sehwag's style can be tagged into one category. they are not mutually exclusive .... and 'Sachin's way' is 'Bradman's way' as subscribed by the great Bradman himself

Definately, a case for sounding a troll alert

so anyone who says anything against Sachin is trolling??????????





Wow, we have an Indian version of SST here, folks.....