**Official** New Zealand in England

[Flem274*]

He already is. When Franklin first broke into the side about 4 years ago, he was only bowling about 125 km/h on average.

Strange. I seem to remember him hitting the mid 140s early in his career then dropping to the 130s.

Hope he isn't too affected by this injury. He was very durable until now, bar migraines.

 

[Leslie1]

Leslie, I know you don't like Vettori but he is a vital player in our side. He really gives it some great depth/balance. As a spinner unless we're on a turner he isn't a huge wicket taker however he does create pressure and stops scoring. Patel is the type who is either going to take a bagfull or get smashed. When we want a wicket we don't throw the ball to Vettori we throw it to Mills or Martin or Southee. to help create pressure and stop scoring dead we have Vettori at the other end.

As a batsman he is vey important. Most sides would love a good test bowler that can dig them out of the poo when needed down at number 8. England for example would be keen on him as their top order is rather fragile too atm.

IMO if we drop a seamer we drop Martin or Southee. Its such a harsh call if we drop Martin but he isn't as destructive as the other seamers, which says alot for the quality of our seam attack. Martin is the reliable workhorse (sorta in the Hoggard vein) but I honestly believe next season if we're back at full strength he will be the first reserve seamer. As a frontline bowler he doesn't have the X factor of Mills or Franklin and Southee looks really special at this early stage. Martin is excellent but his role shortly will be as the reliable, sometimes destructive, reserve bowler that will come into the side when needed.

What if Franklin decides to stop bowling and like Ian Butler, decides to concentrate on batting. From what I read in the news, he's keen on becoming a batting all rounder, ie, if he comes back, he has to impress through the bat, and bowls a bit. He will take over Oram's spot if Oram breaks down ALA Bond style.

This is a potentially "bowlers who converted to allrounder" team in the very near future...

Mills (bowler all rounder)
Southee (bowler all rounder)
Franklin (bowler all rounder)
Vettori (bowler all rounder)
Oram (batsman all rounder)

I hope Martin decides to retire so we don't have the dilemma.

I also have a feeling in the near future Oram will have to compete as a batsman only. He can't be expected to bowl long spells (Broad did this for England while Sidey and Anderson rested), and his batting is more suited to ODI and 20 20.

I sure as hell hope we don't end up having bowlers who can't bowl fast, Martin is the only fast bowler, the rest are medium-fast, and I stress the word medium.

With the bowling chart it's pretty obvious the difference bet NZ and England atm. We need a consistent wicket taker bowler ALA Sidebottom. Now don't tell me we don't have any, because Sidebottom, before this series started, isn't rated as highly as your Steyns, Ntini, Sharmas of this world. He takes wickets you can argue thanks to us gifting some of those wickets to him, but he also has a devastating spell in him. We don't have any bowler that can do that since Martin's shocking 5 for something or rather against the Saffas a few seasons back.

A bowler who can get a purple patch going in one of his spells and get a lot of wickets in a short amount of time. And you can't say the conditions didn't suit either, Sidey got his 7 wickets on a flat deck, and Wellington deck, Anderson prospered. Why didn't our bowlers penetrate as well as them?

 

[Raghav]

Good to see Fleming posters all the way

 

[Flem274*]

What if Franklin decides to stop bowling and like Ian Butler, decides to concentrate on batting. From what I read in the news, he's keen on becoming a batting all rounder, ie, if he comes back, he has to impress through the bat, and bowls a bit. He will take over Oram's spot if Oram breaks down ALA Bond style.

This is a potentially "bowlers who converted to allrounder" team in the very near future...

Mills (bowler all rounder)
Southee (bowler all rounder)
Franklin (bowler all rounder)
Vettori (bowler all rounder)
Oram (batsman all rounder)

I hope Martin decides to retire so we don't have the dilemma.

I also have a feeling in the near future Oram will have to compete as a batsman only. He can't be expected to bowl long spells (Broad did this for England while Sidey and Anderson rested), and his batting is more suited to ODI and 20 20.

I sure as hell hope we don't end up having bowlers who can't bowl fast, Martin is the only fast bowler, the rest are medium-fast, and I stress the word medium.

With the bowling chart it's pretty obvious the difference bet NZ and England atm. We need a consistent wicket taker bowler ALA Sidebottom. Now don't tell me we don't have any, because Sidebottom, before this series started, isn't rated as highly as your Steyns, Ntini, Sharmas of this world. He takes wickets you can argue thanks to us gifting some of those wickets to him, but he also has a devastating spell in him. We don't have any bowler that can do that since Martin's shocking 5 for something or rather against the Saffas a few seasons back.

A bowler who can get a purple patch going in one of his spells and get a lot of wickets in a short amount of time. And you can't say the conditions didn't suit either, Sidey got his 7 wickets on a flat deck, and Wellington deck, Anderson prospered. Why didn't our bowlers penetrate as well as them?

Ahem..

Kyle Mills 4/7

Tim Southee 5/55

To name a couple..

Who cares what pace they are? its the effectiveness that counts. Look at Harmison, for most of his career he's been awful and he bowls fast. Tino Best is another. I have no problem with quality swing bowlers like Mills, Franklin and Southee. Mills and Southee have excellent accuracy as well.

Who wants to be the batting allrounder, Franklin or, god forbid, Ian Butler?

I've seen Butler play and he is NDs version of Andre Adams but worse.

He should be an opener IMO if he wants a future with the black caps.

Jacob Oram is on the decline as a bowler. Its a shame as he isn't a good enough batsman to make the test side on batting alone. Hopefully when he pulls the plug he's given Corey Anderson enough time to get ready.

 

[Flem274*]

Good to see Fleming posters all the way

Copycats

 

[Prince EWS]

Copycats

While you're here..

Seriously want an answer to that. Don't want to support him if you think it'll jinx him.

 

[Nutter]

At one point our attack could have comprised: Bond, Nash, Doull, Cairns, Vettori. Our attack now could be Bond, Martin, Mills, Franklin, Vettori. That is a powerful attack.

Don't forget a certain Geoffrey Allott who swung the ball both ways at serious pace. He was looking the goods until he broke down. Imagine him and Bond with the new ball.


WRT bowling allrounders, imagine this for a tail:
Oram
McCullum
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Southee

Bloody hell!!! And we'd probably need it too with our top order always getting into strife!

 

[Leslie1]

Nutter, if you notice that's 1 bowler too many.

What about Ross Taylor?

Edit: Oh wait... McCullum is in there lol.

 

[Flem274*]

While you're here..

Seriously want an answer to that. Don't want to support him if you think it'll jinx him.

Hell yeah we need more Greg Hay supporters. I think he's got a better chance than Sinclair due to better technique and a very, very positive attitude. In his interview on the news he seemed to have alot of slef belief but not overconfidence. One of the better quotes that show his personality was something like "I view every innings as an opportunity because if I score 200 odd I'm in with a chance and also I might not score them next time so I get as many as I can now" Of course you'd expect most cricketers to be like that but yeah, his attitude impressed me. I've always felt the likes of Sinclair, Styris and Oram look very uncertain at the crease.

 

[Leslie1]

Agreed with the attitude thing. Sinclair (no offense to Prince who loves him) is a ****** at the crease. In fact he's a ****** pretending to play cricket.

He has absolutely no regard to the situation the team's in, and comes out and bat like an idiot. Gets out that way too if you notice. He is one batsman that has all the shots, but his shot selection is awful. I have no idea where his head space at.

One recent example of his mental ****** behavior can be seen when he walked out 1st innings with Flem going great guns on the other side, only to almost ran him out first delivery he faced. He wanted to get off strike for his own benefit. We all know what happened next.

His demeanor on the field as well, he seems to laugh to himself, and giggles to himself, doing a lot of extra unnecessary 'byplays' while the rest of his teammates wonder what the hell he is doing. To a point they kinda just ignores him. What a weird fella.

 

[Smudge]

Don't forget a certain Geoffrey Allott who swung the ball both ways at serious pace. He was looking the goods until he broke down.

Yeah those 13-odd test wickets at 58 really got me frothing...

 

[Flem274*]

Agreed with the attitude thing. Sinclair (no offense to Prince who loves him) is a ****** at the crease. In fact he's a ****** pretending to play cricket.

He has absolutely no regard to the situation the team's in, and comes out and bat like an idiot. Gets out that way too if you notice. He is one batsman that has all the shots, but his shot selection is awful. I have no idea where his head space at.

One recent example of his mental ****** behavior can be seen when he walked out 1st innings with Flem going great guns on the other side, only to almost ran him out first delivery he faced. He wanted to get off strike for his own benefit. We all know what happened next.

His demeanor on the field as well, he seems to laugh to himself, and giggles to himself, doing a lot of extra unnecessary 'byplays' while the rest of his teammates wonder what the hell he is doing. To a point they kinda just ignores him. What a weird fella.

Yeah his mental side of his game has gone to poo. In fairness to Sinclair batting for your career can't be easy though. He always had the talent to be world class, still has in fact, but the mental strength and technique are just not there now.

I'll always admire him for being such a great servant for Central Districts though, one of our all time greats. He is one of the batsmen that genuinely terrifies domestic bowlers because today could be a Skippy Double Hundred day.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah those 13-odd test wickets at 58 really got me frothing...

Poor old Nutter. Heaths gonna go ballistic when he sees that post.

Allot was a fine one day bowler though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Agreed with the attitude thing. Sinclair (no offense to Prince who loves him) is a ****** at the crease. In fact he's a ****** pretending to play cricket.

He has absolutely no regard to the situation the team's in, and comes out and bat like an idiot. Gets out that way too if you notice. He is one batsman that has all the shots, but his shot selection is awful. I have no idea where his head space at.

One recent example of his mental ****** behavior can be seen when he walked out 1st innings with Flem going great guns on the other side, only to almost ran him out first delivery he faced. He wanted to get off strike for his own benefit. We all know what happened next.

His demeanor on the field as well, he seems to laugh to himself, and giggles to himself, doing a lot of extra unnecessary 'byplays' while the rest of his teammates wonder what the hell he is doing. To a point they kinda just ignores him. What a weird fella.

That's the worst post I've ever seen.

Honestly, it's fair enough to say he shouldn't be in the team. It's even fair enough to disagree with my views regrarding why his career wasn't as good as many expected. However, that's just dribble.

I dare say you don't have any perspective about him aside from the last two Test series he's appeared in, because he has two Test double centuries, and averages 50 odd for Central Districts. He scored an amazing 150 against South Africa. The man can bat ffs. No, he didn't show that he could do it consisently at Test level, but he has that he can bat, even at Test level at times, whether you've actually seen that or not.

I'd like to move across to Daniel Flynn for a minute. This is a man who, in a competition Sinclair has dominated for a decade, has a worse record than what Sinclair does in Tests. So even in a competition where retards can be king, Daniel Flynn has the record of a ******. By your logic, Flynn is a ****** among retards.

I'm not even arguing for Sinclair's selection here. He probably shouldn't be going to England, as he's been awful lately. That saddens me quite a bit, but I can accept it. You aren't talking about his selection or his current form though - you're making completely ridiculous comments about his career as a whole. He doesn't deserve those sort of comments as they are completely ridiculous and disrespectful to someone who was an exceptional First Class batsman and has his moments at Test level early his career. Say he's past it, call him a failed Test batsman.. I can't really argue it. But to call him a ******? Seriously, GAGF.

I now know how Heath feels when people bag O'Brien so harshly. He may look rubbish at Test level but there may be other reasons for that - his First Class record for Wellington is exceptional and it should be respected as such.

 

[Flem274*]

That's the worst post I've ever seen.

Honestly, it's fair enough to say he shouldn't be in the team. It's even fair enough to disagree with my views regrarding why his career wasn't as good as many expected. However, that's just dribble.

I dare say you don't have any perspective about him aside from the last two Test series he's appeared in, because he has two Test double centuries, and averages 50 odd for Central Districts. He scored an amazing 150 against South Africa. The man can bat ffs. No, he didn't show that he could do it consisently at Test level, but he has that he can bat, even at Test level at times, whether you've actually seen that or not.

I'd like to move across to Daniel Flynn for a minute. This is a man who, in a competition Sinclair has dominated for a decade, has a worse record than what Sinclair does in Tests. So even in a competition where retards can be king, Daniel Flynn has the record of a ******. He'd be a ****** among retards, if you will.

I'm not even arguing for Sinclair's selection here. He probably shouldn't be going for England, as he's been awful lately. That saddens me quite a bit, but I can accept it. You aren't talking about his selection or his current form though - you're making completely ridiculous comments about his career as a whole. He doesn't deserve those sort of comments as they are completely ridiculous and disrespectful to someone who was an exceptional First Class batsman and has his moments at Test level early his career. Say he's past it, call him a failed Test batsman.. I can't really argue it. But to call him a ******? Seriously, GAGF.

I now know how Heath feels when people bag O'Brien so harshly. He may look rubbish at Test level but there may be other reasons for that - his First Class record for Wellington is exceptional and it should be respected as such.

Yeah agree with this. Switching to O'Brien for a sec, the guy astonishes me. His domestic record is superior to any other bowler in the country yet he looks awful at test level. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Flem274*]

Sinclair is a crap batsman. Poor technique etc isn't an excuse, look at Andrew Symonds. Now there's a real batsman, he smashes the best sixes L0Lz. Better allrounder than that Watson wussy.

Sinclair is an incompetent!!

 

[Prince EWS]

Sinclair is a crap batsman. Poor technique etc isn't an excuse, look at Andrew Symonds. Now there's a real batsman, he smashes the best sixes L0Lz. Better allrounder than that Watson wussy.

Sinclair is an incompetent!!

..

You do realise I'm a mod, don't you?

Don't bait other members!

 

[Leslie1]

That's the worst post I've ever seen.

Honestly, it's fair enough to say he shouldn't be in the team. It's even fair enough to disagree with my views regrarding why his career wasn't as good as many expected. However, that's just dribble.

I dare say you don't have any perspective about him aside from the last two Test series he's appeared in, because he has two Test double centuries, and averages 50 odd for Central Districts. He scored an amazing 150 against South Africa. The man can bat ffs. No, he didn't show that he could do it consisently at Test level, but he has that he can bat, even at Test level at times, whether you've actually seen that or not.

I'd like to move across to Daniel Flynn for a minute. This is a man who, in a competition Sinclair has dominated for a decade, has a worse record than what Sinclair does in Tests. So even in a competition where retards can be king, Daniel Flynn has the record of a ******. By your logic, Flynn is a ****** among retards.

I'm not even arguing for Sinclair's selection here. He probably shouldn't be going for England, as he's been awful lately. That saddens me quite a bit, but I can accept it. You aren't talking about his selection or his current form though - you're making completely ridiculous comments about his career as a whole. He doesn't deserve those sort of comments as they are completely ridiculous and disrespectful to someone who was an exceptional First Class batsman and has his moments at Test level early his career. Say he's past it, call him a failed Test batsman.. I can't really argue it. But to call him a ******? Seriously, GAGF.

I now know how Heath feels when people bag O'Brien so harshly. He may look rubbish at Test level but there may be other reasons for that - his First Class record for Wellington is exceptional and it should be respected as such.

Wow. What a reaction. I'm sorry but I wasn't commenting on his career. I'm commenting about his 'top 2 inches'. I complimented the fact that he hardly ever gets out to a good ball, he gets out playing dumb shots.

I'm talking about him as a team player. He is NOT a team man, he never has. If you take notice of the team dynamics while the team is fielding, you'll notice that he's got nobody to talk to. IE. He has no mates in the team. It's part of the reason (not a good reason tho) why he keeps getting dropped when he failed a few innings early on in his career. Nobody in that team likes him there. Now I wonder if that is because he rubs people the wrong way. His personality is the opposite of McMillan. McMillan is the ultimate team geller, Sinclair polarizes people.

Watch him on the field. (Not much chance anymore it seems like). He would do a lot of 'byplays' (repeating my last post) and nobody would take notice. A lot of the team are weary of Sinclair's quirky behaviors. That is not a problem provided he bats like a champ. But I suspect that is the reason why he never reached his potential.

To sum it up in a nutshell: Sinclair is a loner seeking attention to himself.

 

[Flem274*]

..

You do realise I'm a mod, don't you?

Don't bait other members!

I wouldn't attack a good CD man like Sinclair with any seriousness.

 

[Flem274*]

Wow. What a reaction. I'm sorry but I wasn't commenting on his career. I'm commenting about his 'top 2 inches'. I complimented the fact that he hardly ever gets out to a good ball, he gets out playing dumb shots.

I'm talking about him as a team player. He is NOT a team man, he never has. If you take notice of the team dynamics while the team is fielding, you'll notice that he's got nobody to talk to. IE. He has no mates in the team. It's part of the reason (not a good reason tho) why he keeps getting dropped when he failed a few innings early on in his career. Nobody in that team likes him there. Now I wonder if that is because he rubs people the wrong way. His personality is the opposite of McMillan. McMillan is the ultimate team geller, Sinclair polarizes people.

Watch him on the field. (Not much chance anymore it seems like). He would do a lot of 'byplays' (repeating my last post) and nobody would take notice. A lot of the team are weary of Sinclair's quirky behaviors. That is not a problem provided he bats like a champ. But I suspect that is the reason why he never reached his potential.

To sum it up in a nutshell: Sinclair is a loner seeking attention to himself.

Erm..evidence?

There has been rumours but I personally believe a man should be allowed to be himself provided he isn't detrimental to other players. Parore, Cairns, Nash etc were all very individual and "quirky" in some ways but no one ever complained about them, the team just accepted them for who they are.