Indian Premier League

[ret]

Difference is the ages between Hick and Badrinath. Hick was still learning his game when he got selected. Badrinath knows his game in side out.

The thing with Raina he really wasn't given enough time in domestic cricket to really work on the issues he had with his game. I would be surprised if he improved much. Personally I think he only got selected due to youth policy. The fact Twiray(sp) played ahead of him when Yuraj was injuried says a fair bit for me. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets dropped next ODI series for one of U19 batsmen or Rahane.

how much Badri knows his game, we can only find that out once he plays international cricket

well, I don't know how much you know abt Indian cricket, but it's not the first time that players with potential have been picked for international cricket w/o giving them enough time in domestics .... most of these guys adjust to the learning curve while playing international cricket as there is a gap b/w international cricket and Indian domestics

 

[chaminda_00]

how much Badri knows his game, we can only find that out once he plays international cricket

well, I don't know how much you know abt Indian cricket, but it's not the first time that players with potential have been picked for international cricket w/o giving them enough time in domestics .... most of these guys adjust to the learning curve while playing international cricket as there is a gap b/w international cricket and Indian domestics

There is more to cricket then just how well a guy performs in International cricket. Domestic performance, even in a lesser competition like India, still provides an example of a players ability at International level. We will find out to an extent where Badrinath is at during this IPL series, when he up against some world class bowlers.

Yeah I know that majority of Indian players get selected on potential rather then performances in domestic cricket. But like Raina there are plenty that flop at International level due to only being selected on potential. More often then not the ones that do succeed have had more success at domestic level then Raina though.

 

[ret]

There is more to cricket then just how well a guy performs in International cricket. Domestic performance, even in a lesser competition like India, still provides an example of a players ability at International level. We will find out to an extent where Badrinath is at during this IPL series, when he up against some world class bowlers.

Yeah I know that majority of Indian players get selected on potential rather then performances in domestic cricket. But like Raina there are plenty that flop at International level due to only being selected on potential. More often then not the ones that do succeed have had more success at domestic level then Raina though.

Having watched Raina, I can say that he has the potential .... He has played 36 games for Ind, of which Ind have won 19 and he averages an impressive 46.62 in them .... He has shown a cool head in pressure situations, has most of the shots in the book and is a gr8 prospect

Raina in ODIs

we are talking abt 20T here, Chennai has some nice finishers already in Hussey, Dhoni & Oram ... and if a couple of guys from the top 5 play well, I don't see a lot of wkts falling so it's better to give the ones who can better utilize the overs a chance earlier

As I said, I would start out with Raina in the top order and would back him to do the job .... if he is successful then thats gr8, if not then i ll look at other options

 

[chaminda_00]

Having watched Raina, I can say that he has the potential .... He has played 36 games for Ind, of which Ind have won 19 and he averages an impressive 46.62 in them lot of wkt

Raina in ODIs

Again, we are talking abt 20T here, Chennai has some nice finishers already in Hussey, Dhoni & Oram ... and if a couple of guys from the top 5 play well, I don't see a lot of wkts falling

As I said, I would start out with Raina in the top order and would back him to do the job .... if he is successful then thats gr8, if not then i ll look at other options

The thing in Twenty20 is that you need your best batsmen up the order especially in domestic Twenty20. Cam White is a very good finisher, but has had most of his Twenty20 success up the order. The likes of Hussey, Dhoni and Oram need to bat up the order to get the most out of their abilities. They will get wasted down the order. People have to remember these are domestic Twenty20 matches, so not many wickets are likely to fall. So there no point in have say Dhoni, Hussey and Oram at 4-6. Atleast one if not two of them need to be in the top three.

With relation to Raina 19 matches is too some percentage to make a judgement or see a pattern. Especially when in six of those matches he didn't bat and another four he was not out. Add to fact only one of those matches he batted at 3 and rest was in the lower middle order.

 

[ret]

The thing in Twenty20 is that you need your best batsmen up the order especially in domestic Twenty20. Cam White is a very good finisher, but has had most of his Twenty20 success up the order. The likes of Hussey, Dhoni and Oram need to bat up the order to get the most out of their abilities. They will get wasted down the order. People have to remember these are domestic Twenty20 matches, so not many wickets are likely to fall. So there no point in have say Dhoni, Hussey and Oram at 4-6. Atleast one if not two of them need to be in the top three.

With relation to Raina 19 matches is too some percentage to make a judgement or see a pattern. Especially when in six of those matches he didn't bat and another four he was not out.

Dude, whats your point?

First you argue that Raina is a good finisher so should bat down the order then you talk abt the importance of playing good players up the order in 20T even if they are good finishers, which is one of my points in the first place

Don't you read what I m writing? I already mentioned that Hussey, Dhoni and Oram should bat up the order as they are amongst the best to utilize the 20 overs

That guy had Aniruddha and Badrinathn at 2 & 3 respectively, so I said that I would open with Hayden and Raina, with Hussey at 3, Dhoni at 4, and Oran at 5 .... As they are best in the team to utilize the 20 overs and thus should be given a chance to bat up the order

 

[chaminda_00]

Dude, whats your point?

First you argue that Raina is a good finisher so should bat down the order then you talk abt the importance of playing good players up the order in 20T even if they are good finishers, which is one of my points in the first place

Don't you read what I m writing? I already mentioned that Hussey, Dhoni and Oram should bat up the order as they are in the best position to utilize the 20 overs

That guy had Aniruddha and Badrinathn at 2 & 3 respectively, so I said that I would open with Hayden and Raina, with Hussey at 3, Dhoni at 4, and Oran at 5 .... As they are best in the team to utilize the 20 overs and thus should be given a chance to bat up the order

The point is that you have your best batsmen in top order in Twenty20 domestic matches and Raina isn't one of our best batsmen. Then you started going on about how Raina is good top order batsmen and has had success in the top order for India. He averages 20 at 3 and 40 odd at six. If you want to get anything out of Raina it would be at 6. He would be useless at 3. Was just pointing out Raina was crap top order batsmen.

 

[ret]

The point is that you have your best batsmen in top order in Twenty20 domestic matches and Raina isn't one of our best batsmen. Then you started going on about how Raina is good top order batsmen and has had success in the top order for India. He averages 20 at 3 and 40 odd at six. If you want to get anything out of Raina it would be at 6. He would be useless at 3. Was just pointing out Raina was crap top order batsmen.

so who would you open with? Don't say Badri coz he hasn't opened, iirc, nor has he played any international games to judge his 'real potential'. he is not one of the best batsmen in Chennai .... so what was ur point in making this a Badri vs Raina, who was selected for CB series, is identified as one of the bright prospects .... and again this is not Tiwary playing in the 11 in the CB and not Raina but abt getting into the top 16, which neither Aniruddha or Badri did

the argument going on was Arun's line up vs the line up I suggested i.e. Hayden, Raina, Hussey, Dhoni & Oram in top 5 .... It was you who jumped in regards to Badri being one of the best and thats where i made a case for Raina

Soi f your case is that the best 3 should bat in top 3 then it would not be Badri but the 3 amongst the top 5 I suggested

 

[chaminda_00]

so who would you open with? Don't say Badri coz he hasn't opened, iirc, nor has he played any international games to judge his 'real potential'. he is not one of the best batsmen in Chennai .... so what was ur point in making this a Badri vs Raina, who was selected for CB series, is identified as one of the bright prospects .... and again this is not Tiwary playing in the 11 in the CB and not Raina but abt getting into the top 16, which neither Aniruddha or Badri did

the argument going on was Arun's line up vs the line up I suggested i.e. Hayden, Raina, Hussey, Dhoni & Oram in top 5 .... It was you who jumped in regards to Badri being one of the best and thats where i made a case for Raina

Soi f your case is that the best 3 should bat in top 3 then it would not be Badri but the 3 amongst the top 5 I suggested

Mate if Raina was seen as realistic opening option or even top order option. Then why do you think Chennai signed three Indian batsmen after they signed him. It quite clear that he is only seen as middle order option looking at the make up of the side.

I don't really care if Raina was selected ahead of Badrinath for the CB series. Anyone who has seen both play say that Badrinath is better batsmen. If Badrinath was three years younger he would have walked into the squad ahead of Raina.

Personally I would have a side like this:
- Hayden, Hussey, Badrinath, Dhoni, Oram, Raina etc.

Hussey has open for most of his career in FC and would be perfectly suited to open in domestic Twenty20 match. If Morkel played ahead of Oram then he would bat at 3 and Bandrinath would bat at 5 or 6.

But even if it was a toss about between Raina and Badrinath at three. Badrinath has a far better record then Raina at three in any form. Raina is decent batsmen, but a lower middle order batsmen. He proved at ODI level he is useless as a No 3. Which is the only level of cricket that matters to you.

 

[ret]

Mate if Raina was seen as realistic opening option or even top order option. Then why do you think Chennai signed three Indian batsmen after they signed him. It quite clear that he is only seen as middle order option looking at the make up of the side.

I don't really care if Raina was selected ahead of Badrinath for the CB series. Anyone who has seen both play say that Badrinath is better batsmen. If Badrinath was three years younger he would have walked into the squad ahead of Raina.

Personally I would have a side like this:
- Hayden, Hussey, Badrinath, Dhoni, Oram, Raina etc.

Hussey has open for most of his career in FC and would be perfectly suited to open in domestic Twenty20 match. If Mørkel played ahead of Oram then he would bat at 3 and Bandrinath would bat at 5 or 6.

But even if it was a toss about between Raina and Badrinath at three. Badrinath has a far better record then Raina at three in any form. Raina is decent batsmen, but a lower middle order batsmen. He proved at ODI level he is useless as a No 3. Which is the only level of cricket that matters to you.

I have no probs with Hussey opening .... in that case, I would have Raina at 3 .... something Raina has done for Ind in the past and i would back him to be succeessful at that

on ur comment on if Badri had been younger, he would be blah blah well if 'ifs' and 'but' were pots and pans then there would be no tinkers .... Badri is not one of the top 3 batsmen in the Chennai squad, is he?

And your point on A Morkel batting at 3, goes against your first stand as he is not a top order batsman and neither one of the top 3 batsmen in Chennai squad .... it's funny that you spent your energy arguing against Raina and his position in the top order while you recommended Morkel on the other hand .... whatever your thinking is, i guess, that some of it could be applied in Raina's case in the top order

 

[Prince EWS]

on ur comment on if Badri had been younger, he would be blah blah well if 'ifs' and 'but' were pots and pans then there would be no tinkers .... Badri is not one of the top 3 batsmen in the Chennai squad, is he?

Well if you think Raini is, then Badrinath is.

I'm not sure of the composition of the team at all TBH, but if your point is that Raina is a better batsman than Badrinath because he got selected ahead of him in the CB series squad, you are quite misguided. He was taken over for the experience and the opportunity, not because he's a better batsman - a policy that I strongly disagree with, but which occurs quite a lot with virtually every team going around.

You can make a case for Raina being selected ahead of Badrinath, but I don't really think anyone could make a case for him actually being a better batsman than Badrinath at the current point in time.

 

[sideshowtim]

Ronchi is a great pick up for Mumbai. Looks like he'll get a run in every game too considering they don't have a huge amount of overseas players and he's the best 'keeper-bat in their squad.

 

[Manee]

Pinal Shah does seem to have a very good record though.

 

[Arjun]

Mumbai already has Sanath, Pollock, Malinga and Dilhara in their first-choice lineup, so there's a slim chance for Ronchi to make the team. Besides, as said above, Pinal Shah has a good record and has been in good form lately.

 

[Arjun]

Wikipedia has listed some useful local players in each team. Will they get a match?

• LR Shukla (Kolkata)
• Ranadeb Bose (Kolkata)
• Niraj Patel (Rajasthan)

That could help solve puzzles in some teams.

 

[sideshowtim]

Mumbai already has Sanath, Pollock, Malinga and Dilhara in their first-choice lineup, so there's a slim chance for Ronchi to make the team. Besides, as said above, Pinal Shah has a good record and has been in good form lately.

Ronchi is a better cricketer than Fernando IMO.

 

[NZTailender]

Nah, Fernando>>>Ronchi.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, Fernando>>>Ronchi.

AWTA. Maybe not in Twenty20 cricket though.

 

[NZTailender]

If we're going to go purely on stats I'd have the guy averaging 18 with the ball at an E/R of 6 (for T20, is good) at international level over a guy averaging 20 with the bat at domestic level.

And if you were to go on 50 overs, I'd still take Fernando with a bowling average of 28 over the guy with a batting average of 25, especially if that guy is suppose to open the batting.

 

[sideshowtim]

If we're going to go purely on stats I'd have the guy averaging 18 with the ball at an E/R of 6 (for T20, is good) at international level over a guy averaging 20 with the bat at domestic level.

And if you were to go on 50 overs, I'd still take Fernando with a bowling average of 28 over the guy with a batting average of 25, especially if that guy is suppose to open the batting.

Ronchi's Strike Rate in T20 cricket is a superb 177. I just think he's more of a "take the game away from the opposition" player in T20 cricket than Fernando. Given how disgraceful Jayasuriya's form has been lately, I think Ronchi would be a great player to have opening the batting.

 

[NZTailender]

SR is important, if you can stay in. Scoring at 177 from 10 deliveries is little help if you're an opener.