***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08

[Burgey]

I mean I am appalled at the hypocrisy being shown by some Aussie fans here. You accuse Harbhajan of racism without a shred of evidence and yet continue to maintain your silence over the racist abuse hurled at him by your own crowd.

Yeah yeah I know , its some idiots in the crowd and blah blah blah..that's your defence for the aussie crowd behaviour but when it comes to Indian crowds, you start your counting in 1000s.

Needless to say, people continue to defend Hayden who is not only a liar but also shown to have racist attitude.

Unfair imo. There have been plenty of posters here from all quarters who've mentioned the racist crowd abuse issue and spoken against it.

And to say there's not a shred is not accurate either - there was evidence, but it was not sufficient (rightly imo) for him to be found guilty.

As for Hayden, I just reiterate that the judge said his and Tendulkar's evidence was the most impressive of any of the parties involved. So really, what right do you have to say that he was lying about what he heard? The issue of his radio interview is another matter entirely. He went on like a buffoon.

 

[Sanz]

Unfair imo. There have been plenty of posters here from all quarters who've mentioned the racist crowd abuse issue and spoken against it.

I said 'Some' Aussie fans. That should suggest that I wasn't talking about all Aussie fans.

And to say there's not a shred is not accurate either - there was evidence, but it was not sufficient (rightly imo) for him to be found guilty.

Actually there isn't any evidence to suggest what Harbhajan actually said or if Hayden really heard anything.

As for Hayden, I just reiterate that the judge said his and Tendulkar's evidence was the most impressive of any of the parties involved. So really, what right do you have to say that he was lying about what he heard?

Impressive or not is really none of my concern. Judge did have his own doubts over Hayden's and Clarke's testimony :-

"....it is not without significance that the Australian players maintain other than Mr Symonds that they did not hear any other words spoken only the ones that are said to be of significance to this hearing. This is a little surprising in the context where there was a reasonably prolonged heated exchange. Indeed Mr Clarke went so far as to say that he did not hear Mr Symonds say anything. Given Mr Symonds’ own acceptance that he initiated the exchange and was abusive towards Mr Singh, that is surprising. "....


Now you dont want judge to flat out declare him a liar, do you. Twice in one para, he uses the word surprising for Hayden's testimony. Clarke's statement that he didn't hear Symonds say anything yet heard Bhajji say "something something something big Monkey..." is hillariously blatant lie.

The issue of his radio interview is another matter entirely. He went on like a buffoon.

A racist Buffoon, at least in the part where he tried to mock Sharma.

 

[Ikki]

That's your evidence that Bhajji indeed said it?

Haha, are you serious? Half the Aussie team were calling him on it, were talking to the umpire about it and not ONCE did he deny it. You know what he did say? "But he started it". Oh lord... and all the bias' is supposedly Australia's.

 

[Ikki]

Lets see.........Harbhajan is abused by Symonds........Harbhajan abuses him back in turn using Hindi/Punjabi swear words.............then all of a sudden the "monkey" allegation is thrown at him and then Hayden says "racial vilification".........and you expect a composed denial from him???
This attitude from people like you is exactly the two-faced attack that he faced all through this tour in Australia. He is now being accused of being a racist solely because he did not defend himself adequately in the heat of the moment??!! And that was the compelling evidence for you?? Like I said for certain sections of Australians he was damned if he did anything and damned if he did not.

Are you okay? It is not about adequately denying it, it's about not denying it at all. What was his reply? "But he started it". Are you so whacked out you can't see what that means?

And please stop painting this clown as a victim.

Do you start defending yourself if someone comes around and heaps an unfair accusation at you? or are you surprised at what the hell is going on?

Uh yeah, I kinda actually do start defending myself. Especially when it is a serious matter and especially when there seems to be a connection in the past. Yeah, I'd say any sane person would.

And don't even begin to talk about taking racism seriously............because if you were................you would have said something about the way the certain sections of the Australian crowd went after him.Or is it only racism when its directed towards a coloured Australian player??

What are you talking about? I've been saying Hayden did something racist with his accent mocking, I've been criticising Symonds, etc.

Sorry, I am not on the board all the time nor do I post so often as to have to give my 2 cents on everything. But really, get a grip.

Like I have said earlier......probably it was not Harbhajan's performance that made them target him......but the fact that he looked like the only chink in the armour of the Indian team.

Except, you didn't say that. You said they went after him much like they went after Flintoff. Big difference, Flintoff was the threat, not the chink in the armour. Secondly, Australian teams have, confessedly, said that they go after the strong players. And what benefit would it do to go after someone who's position makes your team stronger?

Good one.

 

[Ikki]

Ugh..The question is not whether Harbhajan said anything or not, the question is - Is it clear from the stump mic recording that Harbhajan said the 'M..' word and Hayden heard it ? The answer to both the questions is NO. There is no evidence to suggest that Harbhajan said the 'M..' word and nor is there any way to prove that Hayden heard anything that was said by Bhajji.

You mean, there is no evidence but the testimony of the other Australians. And that the surrounding conversation that the stump mic did catch make him look guilty as sin.

And the question is whether he said it or not. You just said in your previous post that you would believe Harbhajan over half the Aussie team who are capable of constructing a "web of lies". Are you serious? In the past I think I gave you a bit too much credit.

If Hayden/Clarke had not heard the actual word/senetnce how can they accuse someone of racism ? If you are going to accuse someone of a charge like Racism, make sure that you really heard the racial abuse.

Except, as Burgey keeps pointing out, Hayden actually had one of the most convincing testimonies?

To me it seems that they simply took the word of Symonds and acted upon it.

Again, your opinion means jack to me. Especially considering it doesn't make much sense.

I know who you find more credible, that's not really a surprise. I mean if Hayden's word takes precedence over Tendulkar's then yeah I dont have much more to say about your unbiased approach on the issue.

See, this is the disgusting accusation that I am trying to address. You are trying to paint the Aussies as aggressors, but not only that...but also capable of stooping to very low means.

Where did you get that from? Hayden may not be as nice as Tendulkar, but you are questioning his honesty? When was Hayden's honesty ever in doubt? Where did he ever go on the record to lie? I am not aware of this, help me out if there is some history there. I'll gladly rethink my position.

LOL, so I HAVE to believe Tendulkar? If anything, the fact that Tendulkar said something made me doubt the whole thing. But there is a stack against Harbhajan that means more to me than Tendulkar.

Yeah Right !! From what one has seen of Aussie Players in the past, It is not too hard to figure out that they will stoop to any level to mentally disintegrate and they get full support from the fans, their board and at times even their prime ministers.

Here we go again...stoop to any level. Nevermind that India and, specifically, Harbhajan have the worst behavioral records in Cricket.

 

[biased indian]

Haha, are you serious? Half the Aussie team were calling him on it, were talking to the umpire about it and not ONCE did he deny it. You know what he did say? "But he started it". Oh lord... and all the bias' is supposedly Australia's.

So for you Hayden + Symmonds is half the team..no body else have testified that they have heard any thing ???

Ya may be if you counting the idiots in the aussie team..thay might be more that half

 

[sirdj]

Are you okay? It is not about adequately denying it, it's about not denying it at all. What was his reply? "But he started it". Are you so whacked out you can't see what that means?
And please stop painting this clown as a victim.

No-one is painting Harbhajan as a victim..................however when it comes down to unsubstantiated charges of racism...........It is clearly a case of prejudice if all the evidence that you need to label him racist is
a) not defending himself sufficiently.
b) saying something on the lines of "but he started it".

while ignoring the fact that
a) Hayden was beyond the stump mike................which despite all sound enhancing could not produce evidence of alleged slur..................but Hayden could hear it...........which means either Hayden has superhearing or is lying.
b) Tendulkar says that the word used was not "monkey".

So its pretty clear to me what you desperately want to believe...........while my opinion depends on real evidence.

Uh yeah, I kinda actually do start defending myself. Especially when it is a serious matter and especially when there seems to be a connection in the past. Yeah, I'd say any sane person would.

So even if the accusations are false.............you are not surprised?? It does not take you a moment to compose yourself?? Then either you are a very good lawyer or liar.

What are you talking about? I've been saying Hayden did something racist with his accent mocking, I've been criticising Symonds, etc.

So according to you Hayden is racist..............and despite that dubious distinction you still take his word over Tendulkar's ?? ....................are you sure you don't wanna change your mind on this?

Sorry, I am not on the board all the time nor do I post so often as to have to give my 2 cents on everything. But really, get a grip.

Number of comments by Kaz on Bhajji = 999
Number of comments by Kaz on poor behaviour by sections of the Aussie crowd = 0.27

Yeah sure.........you dont have enough time.

Except, you didn't say that. You said they went after him much like they went after Flintoff. Big difference, Flintoff was the threat, not the chink in the armour. Secondly, Australian teams have, confessedly, said that they go after the strong players. And what benefit would it do to go after someone who's position makes your team stronger?
Good one.

At least read straight.........I said that this move by the Aussies(of targeting Bhajji) misfired much like Flintoff's move of sledging Yuvraj.

 

[sirdj]

Haha, are you serious? Half the Aussie team were calling him on it, were talking to the umpire about it and not ONCE did he deny it. You know what he did say? "But he started it". Oh lord... and all the bias' is supposedly Australia's.

When the umpire came around and asked him about use of alleged slur.......he denied it and you even have video evidence of him shaking his head in denial.

So from where did you pull out this "not ONCE did he deny it" bit from??

 

[Ikki]

So for you Hayden + Symmonds is half the team..no body else have testified that they have heard any thing ???

Ya may be if you counting the idiots in the aussie team..thay might be more that half

Symonds, Hayden, Clarke and Ponting. 4/11 players were questioning Harbhajan on the field. This isn't about the courts. I am talking about Harbhajan's reaction on the field to his accusers.

 

[Ikki]

When the umpire came around and asked him about use of alleged slur.......he denied it and you even have video evidence of him shaking his head in denial.

So from where did you pull out this "not ONCE did he deny it" bit from??

I am talking about replying to the players. Yes, sure he was going to ACCEPT it. That's like giving yourself away to the police.

 

[Ikki]

No-one is painting Harbhajan as a victim..................however when it comes down to unsubstantiated charges of racism...........It is clearly a case of prejudice if all the evidence that you need to label him racist is
a) not defending himself sufficiently.
b) saying something on the lines of "but he started it".

Oh no. I am also judging him on his history as a player. The combined 3 things are enough for me to consider him guilty. Maybe a court of law won't convict him on these 3 things, but I don't need to have the same standard.

Although, let's step back. I didn't say he was a racist. I said he said the racist word. Hayden did something racially offensive by his mocking of the Indian accent, but I don't consider him a racist either.

while ignoring the fact that
a) Hayden was beyond the stump mike................which despite all sound enhancing could not produce evidence of alleged slur..................but Hayden could hear it...........which means either Hayden has superhearing or is lying.
b) Tendulkar says that the word used was not "monkey".

Stump mic doesn't catch everything and you don't need superhearing on the field to hear what is going on. When Hayden is talking out loud to Harbhajan you can barely hear him. That's the mic you seem to think catches everything.

So its pretty clear to me what you desperately want to believe...........while my opinion depends on real evidence.

Sure it does

So even if the accusations are false.............you are not surprised?? It does not take you a moment to compose yourself?? Then either you are a very good lawyer or liar.

A moment? The whole point is it wasn't a moment. At least two people had a 'discussion' with Harbhajan. I wouldn't call his banter between Symonds or Hayden a 'moment'.

I think the person wanting to desperately believe something is you.

So according to you Hayden is racist..............and despite that dubious distinction you still take his word over Tendulkar's ?? ....................are you sure you don't wanna change your mind on this?

No, I don't think Hayden is a racist, neither do I think Harbhajan is. I think they both had said something clearly insensitive in terms of race. I know I am not a racist, but I know I've laughed at the old racist joke. It's not a good thing, but it exists. I am not going to act holier-than-thou about it.

Number of comments by Kaz on Bhajji = 999
Number of comments by Kaz on poor behaviour by sections of the Aussie crowd = 0.27

Yeah sure.........you dont have enough time.

Number of comments by sirdj on defending Harbhajan = 258.5
Number of comments by sirdj on attacking Australian players = 140.4
Number of comments by sirdj on poor Indian behaviour = 0.1

At least read straight.........I said that this move by the Aussies(of targeting Bhajji) misfired much like Flintoff's move of sledging Yuvraj.

I did read it straight. But let's go on your chopping and changing: it still didn't matter. Harbhajan didn't take enough wickets nor score enough runs to be considered even a half-threat. He got walloped around. Not much like Flintoff or Yuvraj.

 

[Dasa]

Ultimately, there's absolutely zero proof that Harbhajan said anything racist so what exactly is the argument? That some people think he may have said something racist? Well I think a lot of players possibly could have said racially offensive things but that doesn't mean a thing. The whole argument seems to be based more around what people want to believe.

 

[adharcric]

Exactly.

 

[Ikki]

Ultimately, there's absolutely zero proof that Harbhajan said anything racist so what exactly is the argument? That some people think he may have said something racist? Well I think a lot of players possibly could have said racially offensive things but that doesn't mean a thing. The whole argument seems to be based more around what people want to believe.

Wrong. There is proof. But is it enough to rule on without reasonable doubt? Not in a tribunal or a court system but it's enough in some people's minds to reasonably assume he did. To imply it's simply because of nationalistic bias someone may assume either way is ********. There was already enough Indians before the judge came in saying it was not unlikely.

There's a difference between saying there isn't enough proof to saying that there is nothing to question him on.

 

[biased indian]

Wrong. There is proof. But is it enough to rule on without reasonable doubt? Not in a tribunal or a court system but it's enough in some people's minds to reasonably assume he did. To imply it's simply because of nationalistic bias someone may assume either way is ********. There was already enough Indians before the judge came in saying it was not unlikely.

There's a difference between saying there isn't enough proof to saying that there is nothing to question him on.

a very few.... which actually includes you

 

[sideshowtim]

a very few.... which actually includes you

Most reasonable people who exercise logic and have a basic understanding of human interactions and reactions will assume he did.

 

[Prince EWS]

Most reasonable people who exercise logic and have a basic understanding of human interactions and reactions will assume he did.

Most reasonably people are over it by now.

I keep clicking on this thread by instinct, mistaking it for a thread about cricket.

 

[biased indian]

Most reasonably people are over it by now.

I keep clicking on this thread by instinct, mistaking it for a thread about cricket.

we are trying to find out how long you will do that

 

[Son Of Coco]

Let me try to explain this again :-

When they made this whole accusation up, Harbhajan was batting.with Tendulkar and was involved in 100+ partnership for 8th wicket, Perhaps the worst session for Australia in that test match.

His bowling is temed as poor but one must not forget that in the 1st test he already gotten 3 top Aussie batsmen out in the 2nd innings, even in the second test 1st innings, he got Ponting and Clarke out first then helped India get close to 500 with his batting. If you still believe that Australia were not desperate to get under his skin, then god help you.

The idea that the Australian players involved would make up a racism charge simply because a batsman is involved in a partnership that is taking the game away from them at the time is so farcical it's beyond belief that it would even be mentioned.

There is no conclusive evidence either way that the accusation was either 'made up' or otherwise. You can point to the judge's decision, which is what has to be accepted, but I'd hardly call it conclusive.

I am amazed this is still going to be honest...and I just joined in

 

[silentstriker]

Most reasonable people who exercise logic and have a basic understanding of human interactions and reactions will assume he did.

While others believe it or disbelieve it because they are shills for one side or another.




This thread has been going in circles now, just ignore it and let it die.