***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08

[honestbharani]

HB:

This racism vs personal abuse vs bastard being OK etc is not going to converge. It is a matter of very diverse opinions.

In the meanwhile lets just concenterate on more tangible things. Such as:
Does Harbhajan have a pattern of racist discrimination or violent behavior or even a pattern of threatening violence. Anything more serious than shouting at umpires and muttering something at Symonds, which constitutes very undesirable hot headed behavior - but hardly merits the high vitriol heaped on him ('poor excuse for human being', 'racist SOB' etc.).

Would like to know what people really know about him that such conclusions are freely tossed around.

Yep... Not denying it involves diverse opinions but that is exactly why I am saying the rule should be broad enough to cover all of that.



And as regards to your other questions, SS juz likes to jump the gun, Social is juz being Social and most of the other posters have been fair...

 

[Son Of Coco]

That is not proven though....

if any indian player go on radio or press tommorrow and say that hayden said some racist remarks to them..will you buy it..or will you need proof..

although in my book hayden has already made racist remark towards ishant by immitating his way of speaking english..

It's not proven either way no. Hayden's immitating the Indian accent was poor form, although my mates and I have done accents before just to amuse ourselves without trying to be racist (being bored in a town of 2500 people during ski season sees you come up with some strange ways to amuse yourself...waiting for the 'naughty' smiley here! ). Hayden should have known better.

You'd obviously need proof either way, unless it was heard by a third party. I don't put the utmost faith in the judges decision either though. Given that one party's representative is generally doing everything he can to get his client off regardless of the truth and the other representative is doing everything he can to prove his client's point is the truth it basically comes down to money and (in this case) threats to the ruling body from a powerful agency. At the end of the day, nothing is proven either way and the whole thing's a farce.

 

[silentstriker]

Try going to India to any small town or even big town and see how common it is for people to be called "gora" or "kaala" or any other such thing based on the color of their skin....

Because there aren't many black people in those small towns.

And yes, there are worse insults than juz racist ones.... I, for one, am deeply offended if anyone calls me a SoB than if they call me a monkey or whatever......... Again, s that so difficult to comprehend? And what insult is worse and what insult is not so worse plainly depends on the person at whom it has been hurled... Period.

Um, that's because you aren't black, so in this case, it is really irrelevant which insult you find most demeaning.

 

[silentstriker]

Racist SOB to me evokes images of cross burnings, threatening violence, not allowing someone to mix with all people, and denying someone jobs or services at the mildest. (At the most extreme it involves slavery, pillage, murder. )

Anything in this category?

Um, no. There are a lot of racist people, and most of them don't go around lynching, or in most cases, even denying jobs.

 

[ret]

coming back to the booing of Ponting and Bracken, were they booed coz they happened to be Ponting and Bracken or coz they happen to represent the most hated team?

I would not buy the argumant that Bracken was booed coz he got the mot instead of an Indian. It's shallow to think that way. Many non-Ind players hv got the mot when Ind hv won a tourney and the guys getting that hv usually been appreciated

That 'booing' could be for the most hated team coz of the OZ team's behavior on/off the field through the tour. Even if it had been Gilly or Lee, getting the mots, i guess, they would hv got the boos coz that 'booing' was probably for the OZ team and not particularly for an individual

 

[pup11]

coming back to the booing of Ponting and Bracken, were they booed coz they happened to be Ponting and Bracken or coz they happen to represent the most hated team?

I would not buy the argumant that Bracken was booed coz he got the mot instead of an Indian. It's shallow to think that way. Many non-Ind players hv got the mot when Ind hv won a tourney and the guys getting that hv usually been appreciated

That 'booing' could be for the most hated team coz of the OZ team's behavior on/off the field through the tour. Even if it had been Gilly or Lee, getting the mots, i guess, they would hv got the boos coz that 'booing' was probably for the OZ team and not particularly for an individual

All those guys who booed were just dickheads pure and simple and there is no reason why any attention should be given to what they did.

 

[ret]

All those guys who booed were just dickheads pure and simple and there is no reason why any ttention should be given to what they did.

thats a good way to look at it .... was touching that coz for some its an issue

 

[silentstriker]

Someone still has to explain to me why its a bad thing to boo a professional sportsman. I got o Eagles and Phillies games all the time, and I don't feel any less of a fan for booing the hell out of McNabb when he does makes his usual pass into the ground throw.

 

[viktor]

Someone still has to explain to me why its a bad thing to boo a professional sportsman. I got o Eagles and Phillies games all the time, and I don't feel any less of a fan for booing the hell out of McNabb when he does makes his usual pass into the ground throw.

Its okay, IMO to boo a professional sportsman for his/her mistakes or even his/her personality but its another to boo them just because they happen to be non-Indian.
I guess the assumption being that that is the reason why Bracken and Ponting were booed.

 

[ret]

Its okay, IMO to boo a professional sportsman for his/her mistakes or even his/her personality but its another to boo them just because they happen to be non-Indian.
I guess the assumption being that that is the reason why Bracken and Ponting were booed.

But who is making that assumptionr? .... what if they were booed coz they happen to represent the most hated team and not because they were non-Ind .... it's shallow to think that a player would be booed coz he is a non-Ind

 

[viktor]

But who is making that assumptionr? .... what if they were booed coz they happen to represent the most hated team and not because they were non-Ind .... it's shallow to think that a player would be booed coz he is a non-Ind

I dunno, some people are. btw, I can totally imagine the average Indian fan being shallow enough to boo the opposition just because he is non-Indian.

 

[ret]

I dunno, some people are. btw, I can totally imagine the average Indian fan being shallow enough to boo the opposition just because he is non-Indian.

tbh, i haven't seen avg Ind fans booing other players just coz they r non-Indians .... avg Ind fans being shallow comes off as a lame imagination, imo

and by saying that an avg Ind fan is shallow enough, r u implying that u r an bove avg fan?

 

[Precambrian]

Firstly some facts,

symonds admitted in the Hansen hearing that

1. He started the whole thing by abusing Harby
2. Harby told him back "which he thought" was Monkey
3. However could also be "Maa ki" which will still earn a slap if u r in India, but no way racial and worse than what Symmo said.

From there the Australian media takes up, specifically I could pin point Malcolm Conn of the Australian. While other writers have gone tired and dropped this talk, Conn has taken his pervert pleasure to target Bhajji with hi slanderous writings! To the extent where when he relieved one of his itchy underarms, immediately a photo was taken, and headlined "Harby at it again!" What crap! Then the ridiculous "ICC lets off Harby again!!". I mean that was pinnacle of bull****.

India have a long history of suffering from racial thingy and fighting against it, and while I admit not all 100% Indians are paragons of virtue, (yeah, those actions by the Indian spectators in the ODI series in India was deplorable), none of the members of the current Indian team would do that. Harby himself comes from a lower class background, and "sikh" caste, who are known to be proud but senseful people. And in no way racist. There is no social background for him to pass a racial remark. Hardly the media analyses all these. Yes, Harby i a very proud guy, as sikhs are, and Symmo' remark coul've falred him up, and believe me "Maa Ki" is the automatic first response from the mouth of most Indians when very angry.

Anyway, the whole purpose of demonifying and all stuff ultimately took the toll more on Australian cricketers. It simply galvanised a yet un-bonded fresh Indian unit into one and into having some intense focus.

 

[Precambrian]

I dunno, some people are. btw, I can totally imagine the average Indian fan being shallow enough to boo the opposition just because he is non-Indian.

Ever heard abt the Indo - Pak match of Chennai in 1999? Where Tendulkar made a magnificient 139 in the second innings chasing yet India lost narrowly? The match was such a classic that, the entire crowd stayed back for almost half an hour even after the match, that the Pakistani players even did a lap of honor. And 99 was a year of extreme turbulence in Indo-Pak relations following the Kargil war. And 95% assembled there were average fans : auto drivers, students, daily wage earners etc.

Generalisation from a small sample, especially when the population is as wide and diverse as India, is really ver hazardous, not only from the statistician's point of view.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, if you are a Sikh, you can't be racist...

 

[viktor]

tbh, i haven't seen avg Ind fans booing other players just coz they r non-Indians .... avg Ind fans being shallow comes off as a lame imagination, imo

and by saying that an avg Ind fan is shallow enough, r u implying that u r an bove avg fan?

No. I am a below avg fan.

 

[Precambrian]

Yes, if you are a Sikh, you can't be racist...

Ok Can Symonds be racist? Or a black be racist? I think that will answer your question.

 

[viktor]

Ever heard abt the Indo - Pak match of Chennai in 1999? Where Tendulkar made a magnificient 139 in the second innings chasing yet India lost narrowly? The match was such a classic that, the entire crowd stayed back for almost half an hour even after the match, that the Pakistani players even did a lap of honor. And 99 was a year of extreme turbulence in Indo-Pak relations following the Kargil war. And 95% assembled there were average fans : auto drivers, students, daily wage earners etc.

Generalisation from a small sample, especially when the population is as wide and diverse as India, is really ver hazardous, not only from the statistician's point of view.

And yet, pretty close to that Test was the Test at Calcutta where the crowd rioted and the match had to be completed in an empty stadium.

 

[Precambrian]

Exactly. The point was not to generalise from one sections' behaviour.

 

[ret]

No. I am a below avg fan.

so does that make ur thinking even shallower? if not then why do you imagine avg Ind fans to be shallow