How often do you see bowler pat batsmen's heads(Lee - Tendulkar) (touching someone's head in India would mean a big offense), its just that Lee has a different relationship with the Indians than any other Aussie player
Then that would still be Symond's word against his own team mates.
Here's a better question, how often do you see it? Once every Test? Once every 10 tests? It is not common place and when you factor in the recent history it makes the whole thing dubious enough to argue.
Not necessarily. All he'd have to do is show the poor recent history between them. Harbhajan has a poor relationship with the Australian team. Australian team as whole have a poor relationship with the Indian team. Australians were already treated badly in India. What seems more out of the blue is that Harbhajan was being friendly.
It happened in the same test and after the Harbhajan incident.
the reverence of rest of Aussie players is moot.......the transaction was between Lee and Harbhajan........they have even done some odd fashion shows & ads together in India.
But not with Lee.
Rubbish, Gilchrist & Lee have no issues with the Indian Squad and vice versa.
Which world do you live in??? Symonds was the only one mocked by about 15 idiots in a stadium of 80,000.
So what if he was being friendly with Lee??
Nope........he was spot on.
Can you desist with this supposed name calling rubbish.
Not to get facts involved in this discussion, but neither side disputed that Harbhajan was being friendly. It was in the 'statement of agreed facts' signed by both sides.
Yes, I can see why it would happen.
It has everything to do with it. In the Aussie team they don't see themselves split like that. If someone insults me, they insult us all. That's pretty much the mentality that got Symonds in trouble in the first place - and will continue getting him into these kinds of situations.
It doesn't matter if it was with Lee or not. Harbhajan could have been friendly with someone he usually isn't with. If an Aussie player - which happens to be Symonds - sees someone touching a fellow teammate with a bat from afar, after all that has happened, it's not going to make a difference.
Yes, which is why I didn't say every member. But the team - which includes more than just Gilchrist and Lee - do seem to have a problem with the Indian team.
LOL, so it was the sound of 15 people out of 80,000 that reached Symonds whilst he was batting? And I wasn't just talking about the people at the stadium, but the press that vilified him further.
You're missing the point. With the tensions surrounding the series, but prior and during and considering on the whole the Indian players and the Australian players weren't necessarily friendly, it seems more out of place that Harbhajan would be friendly than he would be aggressive. This, assuming Symonds had held that he put forward an argument other than 'test cricket is not a place to be friendly with'.
He was dead wrong, but that's why the next quote makes sense...
I can't. It wasn't a bust-up where we can see who threw what punches. One was said to have made offensive remarks, the other was accused of being racist. I'm raising the question that if instead of "monkey" Harbhajan used the word N-Word would the judge still overruled the ban, even with proof?
I am not arguing they said he wasn't. What I am arguing is that if Symonds were to have made out that he thought Harbhajan wasn't being friendly there is a crapload of circumstantial evidence to have lead him to that assumption.
But he didn't, and he admitted it. So the fact remains he launched into him despite knowing it was just a friendly pat. That in no way excuses Harbhajan's racism and obviously Bhajji should have been banned for a long time, but let's not distort the facts here.
You're missing the point here Manan. I've already said that.
Its common enough that you and I saw it twice at least in the series, and Lee was involved both times.
Symonds was in trouble because he is an idiot. No one else in the Aussie team saw it as an insult. You happen to be the only other person.
which is why the judge said if everyone held the same opinion as Symonds did then indeed it was a bad day for cricket........you seem to hold the same opinion as Symonds.
But not Lee..and that is all that matters.
Yes it was approx 15 -20. The Indian media can be as stupid as the Australian media.
The only tension was that the celebrations of the Indian T20 squad after they won the finals against Pakistan did not go down well with the Aussies, and some Aussie players had a whinge about it. What concern is it of theirs how and why the Indians celebrate or are received back home after winning?
We agree to disagree then.
If pots & pans.......
No it isn't, we both know that. First time it happened it caused this. The second time it was a gesture. You'd be lucky to see it happen once a series.
You're reply is irrelevant. I am not saying I, nor the Aussie teammates saw it as an insult. I am saying, to dispute your stance that regardless the Judge was going to rule the same, that had Symonds argued what we're hypothetically considering, then that's more than a reasonable way to look at things.
Unfortunately, the Judge didn't look at the recent history between them or the players so he doesn't know what action would mean what.
Sure. Ignore what was just said.
It wasn't, it was thousands. I just gave you a news article on it.
LOL, are you serious? You just ignored what I completely said and came with the same non-sense.
It's not really much of an IF at all. You think the Judge would have ruled the same had Harbhajan called Symonds the N-Word? You would be naive to think so. Hence had he, I doubt a Judge is going to come up with some lousy argument that Symonds would have provoked that too. Essentially, it seems the word "monkey' is less racist.
Exaggeration. it was not more than a section of one stand.
Of course, no Australian witness can be trusted.
Why do I have to take your word for what it was.......I saw the incident and can make my own conclusions. Why is it a gesture by Lee and an insult by Harbhajan..........sorry disagree mate.
The only hypothetical that the Judge used was what was said by Harbhajan..........as everything else is basically agreed on by everybody.
he had all the info about what happened in India......the only information he did not have is about Harbhajans previous fines for excessive appealing and the like and his run-ins with the BCCI when he was in the academy.
But if he did....you cant suddenly jump up and say that is suspicious.
Dear god.........its a game.
I'm not implying anything...........I am saying is that your theory has too many ifs & ands for me to even think about it seriously.
Why don't you make a trip to India when Australia tours to India later this year and see what luck you have facing a crowd of 10,000 as he claims. If you survive......I shall believe said article.Of course, no Australian witness can be trusted.
I don't think he actually claims to stand upto 10,000. He just claims he saw thousands chanting monkey insults. You ever been in a stadium? You can tell the difference between hundreds and thousands.
"How many Indians was I arguing with? Mate, I dunno - thousands?" he says. "But hearing those monkey chants in Mumbai, mate, it disgusted me. I'm the softest bloke in the world but there comes a point when you just can't walk away".
Kaz..........you are walking a tight line here.
