Which IPL franchise will you be supporting?

[pasag]

dude, don't teach me what debate is .... u r not in that league yet

but the argument that u presented goes against u, coz

1. u r implying that Kallis failed coz 20T was a hit and giggles affair early on, which again brings the Q that how did u know Kallis didn't take those matches seriously, esp since he was so desperate to play in the 20T WC .... if you imply that someone representing his team/country could take it as a hit and giggle then it seriously undermines his value coz he might just take IPL as hit and giggle too

Verdict ----> not a valid point

2. You are judging bowling of guys like Symo from that WC in RSA but what if that WC was played on a dust bowl in SL. the results would probably be different

Verdict ----> Not a valid point

don't know who really is discrediting Kallis

cheers

This is getting painful, everything has to be explained in fifteen different ways and you still don't seem to understand the point so let's do this all for the last time.

Twenty20 was in it's infancy at its hit and giggles stage, I never said Kallis didn't take it seriously but to deduce anything from those few matches has would be silly as it was at its very start. The WC, once the game started being taken very seriously, however did teach us many things, for one that unlike ODIs there isn't really a place for part-timers. Maybe in Sri Lanka, whatever, it's not the point. On your average Twenty20 flat deck is what we're discussing here. Despite various attempts to link and compare the two it just doesn't work.

 

[ret]

This is getting painful, everything has to be explained in fifteen different ways and you still don't seem to understand the point so let's do this all for the last time.

Twenty20 was in it's infancy at its hit and giggles stage, I never said Kallis didn't take it seriously but to deduce anything from those few matches has would be silly as it was at its very start. The WC, once the game started being taken very seriously, however did teach us many things, for one that unlike ODIs there isn't really a place for part-timers. Maybe in Sri Lanka, whatever, it's not the point. On your average Twenty20 flat deck is what we're discussing here. Despite various attempts to link and compare the two it just doesn't work.

You can present that in 15 or 51 ways but still it wont make sense

and i got ur points, which i hv summed up below

1. Kallis is a gr8 value in 20T coz he is a gr8 batsman and a great bowler
2. His slow strike rate in ODI doesn't matter coz he has the ability to pick it up and ofc if you doubt that then look at pt1
3. He has failed in the 20T so far and wasn't even selected for the RSA 20T squad even though he was desperate to play in it BUT thats not the true measure of his capabilities coz his record in 20T is due to the hit and giggle phase of 20T and if you have any doubts look at pt 1

And even though Ind won the world cup without any domestic structure in place, it was partly due to fact that they had access to info on what works in 20T [yeah, thats why the Big 3 opted out and now want to be a part of IPL, and Ind sent a new captain] and learned quickly. In 30 days of WC, he analyzed that part-timers don't work in 20T as a general rule but then Kallis could not learn the things abt 20T despite having a domestic structure in place for 20T and with most visiting teams playing some 20T games with them

dude, do you really expect me to take you seriously?

cheers

 

[pasag]

You can present that in 15 or 51 ways but still it wont make sense

and i got ur points, which i hv summed up below

1. Kallis is a gr8 value in 20T coz he is a gr8 batsman and a great bowler
2. his slow strike rate in ODI doesn't matter coz he has the ability to pick it up and ofc if you doubt that then look at pt1
3. He has failed in the 20T so far and wasn't even selected for the RSA 20T squad even though he was desperate to play in it BUT thats not the true measure of his capabilities coz his record in 20T is due to the hit and giggle phase of 20T and if you have any doubts look at pt 1

dude, do you really expect me to take you seriously?

cheers

Sigh and for the very last time because it seems like I’m wasting my breath and effort,

1. Yes, but the point is more that he shouldn’t be block holed as a defensive player and not one of your so called group of strokemakers just because of the roles he plays in other formats. He is an modern great and will be able to adapt given the chance. Furthermore, replace batsman with all-rounder and there you have it.
2. His slow strike rate in ODI fits in with the (matchwinning) role he plays. The SR, like in Tests should not allow you to make any assumptions onto other formats.
3. Like I said the last time you brought this up, go look at my first posts on this topic which addresses this point exactly. But I won't hold my breathe.

And last, but not least, I couldn’t care less if you take me seriously or not, m8.

 

[ret]

Sigh and for the very last time because it seems like I’m wasting my breath and effort,

1. Yes, but the point is more that he shouldn’t be block holed as a defensive player and not one of your so called group of strokemakers just because of the roles he plays in other formats. He is an modern great and will be able to adapt given the chance. Furthermore, replace batsman with all-rounder and there you have it.
2. His slow strike rate in ODI fits in with the (matchwinning) role he plays. The SR, like in Tests should not allow you to make any assumptions onto other formats.
3. Like I said the last time you brought this up, go look at my first posts on this topic which addresses this point exactly. But I won't hold my breathe.

And last, but not least, I couldn’t care less if you take me seriously or not, m8.

so this is even worse, so u r on a personal agenda to prove that Kallis can work while I m discussing the merits and demerits of that team composition

Let me make it clear

Kallis, along wih guys like Dravid and Cpaul, will always be remembered as defensive players no matter how hard ppl try to make it appear otherwise. ofc this doesn't mean that they cant turn it on

And everyone understands what their roles are, whats funny is you try to make it appear as if you made some discovery. The thing is that they have been chosen to play those roles coz they are good at playing those roles, which you can't seem to understand

And if the overall playing style of a player is not considered then we would have Bevan, an ODI gr8, playing 100 tests coz of his brilliant ODI record but thats not the case. Can you imagine Gavaskar, the legend, playing 20T? I bet you can but i can't

cheers


PS it's not that i think that Kallis is a bad player or something, only that he may be more suitable for other teams with natural stroke makers around then in B'lore side which has far too many players like him

 

[Protean]

Dislike the fact, Ret, that you keep claiming Kallis was "desperate" to play. He was upset that he wasn't selected, sure, but if you followed that saga you would know it was more because he wasn't informed and the selectors instead claimed he was being "rested", rather than speaking to him openly and honestly about their intentions. Sorry if that is a bit irrelevant, just bothered me.

 

[ret]

Dislike the fact, Ret, that you keep claiming Kallis was "desperate" to play. He was upset that he wasn't selected, sure, but if you followed that saga you would know it was more because he wasn't informed and the selectors instead claimed he was being "rested", rather than speaking to him openly and honestly about their intentions. Sorry if that is a bit irrelevant, just bothered me.

thanx for that info

I m sure he would hv been gr8 for the RSA team, if he had played coz he lends a nice balance to the RSA side

I m discussing his position wrt the B'lore team which has guys like Dravid already, who play similar roles. I m sure he would hv been more than handful for some other team with a bunch of stroke-makers around him

cheers

 

[silentstriker]

thanx for that info

I m sure he would hv been gr8 for the RSA team, if he had played coz he lends a nice balance to the RSA side

I m discussing his position wrt the B'lore team which has guys like Dravid already, who play similar roles. I m sure he would hv been more than handful for some other team with a bunch of stroke-makers around him

cheers

I didn't know Dravid had taken five-fors in Tests. Or that having more than one exceptional batsman somehow hurts your team.

 

[ret]

I didn't know Dravid had taken five-fors in Tests. Or that having more than one exceptional batsman somehow hurts your team.

exceptional definitely but suitable for every format not sure

for Dravid, ppl can argue the same wrt his inclusion in the Indian ODI team and give all the qualities that were given for Kallis

as a captain, I wouldn't want to hv too many similar players in my squad esp for 20T, where things can change so quickly

it's like having a line up with
- Ganguly, Attapattu, Kallis & Dravid, at 1,2, 3, & 4
Or having
- Gilly, Hayden, Ponting & Pieterson

I would prefer the 2nd one any day, even though both lines ups have exceptional players [so whats ur point?]

cheers

 

[adharcric]

cheers

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

cheers

 

[pasag]

so this is even worse, so u r on a personal agenda to prove that Kallis can work while I m discussing the merits and demerits of that team composition

Let me make it clear

Kallis, along wih guys like Dravid and Cpaul, will always be remembered as defensive players no matter how hard ppl try to make it appear otherwise. ofc this doesn't mean that they cant turn it on

And everyone understands what their roles are, whats funny is you try to make it appear as if you made some discovery. The thing is that they have been chosen to play those roles coz they are good at playing those roles, which you can't seem to understand

And if the overall playing style of a player is not considered then we would have Bevan, an ODI gr8, playing 100 tests coz of his brilliant ODI record but thats not the case. Can you imagine Gavaskar, the legend, playing 20T? I bet you can but i can't

cheers


PS it's not that i think that Kallis is a bad player or something, only that he may be more suitable for other teams with natural stroke makers around then in B'lore side which has far too many players like him

Sorry this post doesn't actually make much sense, especially in response to mine and in the context of the discussion. I thought there could have been something on my end last night due to general tiredness but gaps in logic are evident throughout. A language barrier might be responsible for some of it, but a lot of it is just gibberish (for example how you can compare Bevan who was a faluire in Tests to Kallis who has been successfull in all forms is beyond me, if that's what you're trying to do there, I'm still trying to work it out).

Until you stop ignoring the fact Kallis was picked as an all-rounder, for the millionth time (like in your edit again, who in the Bangalore side is a proper all-rounder like him?) and that him playing certain roles has nothing to do on ability, but because that's the best thing for the side, we can't go on any further. No doubt you'll reply with the usual strokemaker crap and stuff on team composition, but that still doesn't address those points, instead totally ignores them.

 

[ret]

Sorry this post doesn't actually make much sense, especially in response to mine and in the context of the discussion. I thought there could have been something on my end last night due to general tiredness but gaps in logic are evident throughout. A language barrier might be responsible for some of it, but a lot of it is just gibberish (for example how you can compare Bevan who was a faluire in Tests to Kallis who has been successfull in all forms is beyond me, if that's what you're trying to do there, I'm still trying to work it out).

Until you stop ignoring the fact Kallis was picked as an all-rounder, for the millionth time (like in your edit again, who in the Bangalore side is a proper all-rounder like him?) and that him playing certain roles has nothing to do on ability, but because that's the best thing for the side, we can't go on any further. No doubt you'll reply with the usual strokemaker crap and stuff on team composition, but that still doesn't address those points, instead totally ignores them.

don't you get the point that I said that i would hv invested that million [$900k to be exact] in a better way in the context of B'lore [which implies that i can get another all-rounder that suits B'lore]

don't you get the point that I don't rate Kallis bowling that highly now coz I don't think he is bowling at his best now-a-days [though i would like to be proved wrong], so why r u trying to shove the all-rounder point down my throat

And all i m saying is that he is not suitable for B'lore squad considering its composition, big deal huh?

on Bevan, isn't it clear that I m taking the overall style of a player from ur argument that a player plays blah blah coz his role is blah blah and that does not mean that he can't do blah blah. it's meant to sound in the same way, ur arguments sound, i.e. it mimics ur arguments duh

In simple math,

top 4: Jaffar + XXX + Kallis + Dravid = O in 20T context

Dravid = 100% good
Kallis = 100% good
But Dravid + Kallis = not so gr8 on flat pitches
As an all-rounder, Kallis = not so gr8 on flat pitches

hope you got the point

cheers

 

[biased indian]

i think you dont have to wait too long the first game is kolkata Vs bangalore rite ???

 

[khawi]

In simple math,

top 4: Jaffar + XXX + Kallis + Dravid = O in 20T context

Dravid = 100% good
Kallis = 100% good
But Dravid + Kallis = not so gr8 on flat pitches
As an all-rounder, Kallis = not so gr8 on flat pitches

hope you got the point

cheers

110% Agreed with u mate, u can call this is the worst combination of T20 ever been made lol, i rather suggest other teams to not get them out till the 19th over lol.
Cheers

 

[R_D]

I'll be following Bombay... Delhi's the closest city to my place and i've only been Bombay once but love the place and was born their.

 

[ret]

looking at the international calender for Apr - June period, the RSA & SL players should be able to the play the IPL .... the OZ vs Pak is still doubtful but then OZ head off to WI .... NZ heads off to Eng in Apr

so i guess teams with more players from RSA & SL should benefit, along with those that hv recently retired overseas players


below is list of teams with overseas players that are likely to play, will omit some of OZ n Pak players as the tour status is in doubt


Hyderabad -
Adam Gilchrist (US$700,000), Herschelle Gibbs (US$575,000), , VVS Laxman (US$375,000), Rohit Sharma (US$750,000), Chamara Silva (US$100,000), RP Singh (US$875,000), Chaminda Vaas (US$200,000), Nuwan Zoysa (US$110,000)

Doubtful - Andrew Symonds (US$1.35 million), Shahid Afridi (US$675,000), Scott Styris (US$175,000)


Chennai Super Kings -
Mahendra Singh Dhoni (US$1.5 million), Muttiah Muralitharan (US$600,000), , Stephen Fleming (US$350,000), Parthiv Patel (US$325,000), Joginder Sharma (US$225,000), Albie Mørkel (US$675,000), Suresh Raina (US$650,000), Makhaya Ntini (US$200,000),

Doubtful - Matthew Hayden (US$375,000), Jacob Oram (US$675,000), Michael Hussey (US$350,000)


Mohali -
Yuvraj Singh (icon), Mahela Jayawardene (US$475,000), Kumar Sangakkara (US$700,000), Sreesanth (US$625,000), Irfan Pathan (US$925,000), Ramesh Powar (US$170,000), Piyush Chawla (US$400,000), Simon Katich (US$200,000),

Doubtful- Brett Lee (US$900,000), Ramnaresh Sarwan (US$225,000)


Kolkata -
Sourav Ganguly (icon), Ajit Agarkar (US$330,000), , Ishant Sharma (US$950,000), Murali Kartik (US$425,000), Tatenda Taibu (US$125,000)

Doubtful - Shoaib Akhtar (US$425,000), Ricky Ponting (US$400,000), Brendon McCullum (US$700,000), Chris Gayle (US$800,000), David Hussey (US$675,000), Umar Gul (US$150,000)


Mumbai -
Sachin Tendulkar (icon), Sanath Jayasuriya (US$975,000), Harbhajan Singh (US$850,000), Shaun Pollock (US$550,000), Robin Uthappa (US$800,000), Lasith Malinga (US$350,000), Dilhara Fernando (US$150,000), Loots Bosman (US$175,000)

Doubtful - none


Bangalore Royal Challengers -
Rahul Dravid (icon), Anil Kumble (US$500,000), Jacques Kallis (US$900,000), Zaheer Khan (US$450,000), Mark Boucher (US$450,000), Cameron White (US$500,000), Wasim Jaffer (US$150,000), Dale Steyn (US$325,000), Praveen Kumar

Doubtful - Nathan Bracken (US$325,000), Shivnarine Chanderpaul (US$200,000)


Delhi Daredevils -
Virender Sehwag (icon), AB de Villiers (US$300,000), Dinesh Karthik (US$525,000), Farveez Maharoof (US$225,000), Tillakaratne Dilshan (US$250,000), Manoj Tiwary (US$675,000), Gautam Gambhir (US$725,000), Glenn McGrath (US$350,000)

Doubtful - Daniel Vettori (US$625,000), Shoaib Malik (US$500,000), Mohammad Asif (US$650,000)


Jaipur -
Shane Warne (US$450,000), Graeme Smith (US$475,000), , Yusuf Pathan (US$475,000), Mohammad Kaif (US$675,000), Munaf Patel (US$275,000)

Doubtful - Younis Khan (US$225,000), Kamran Akmal (US$150,000), Justin Langer (US$200,000)[County]


Looking at the above, the prospective line ups could be -


Hybad - Gilly, Gibbs, VVS, Rohit, Chamara, RP, Vaas, Zoysa + 3 other players


Chennai - Fleming, Parthiv, Raina, Dhoni, Morkel, Joginder, Ntini, Murali + 3 others


Mohali - Katich, Sangakara, Jayawardene, Yuvi, Pathan, Powar, Chawla, Sree + 3 others


Kol - Ganguly, Taibu, Agarkar, M Kartik, Ishant + 6 others


Mum - Tendulkar, Jayasuriya, Uthappa, Pollock, Bhajji, Fernando, Malinga + 4 others


B'lore - Jaffar, Kallis, Dravid, Boucher, White, Praveen, Zak, Styen, Kumble + 2 others


Delhi - Sehwag, Gambhir, deVilliars, Tiwary, Karthik, Dilshan, Maharoof, McGrath + 3 others


Jaipur - Smith, Y Pathan, Kaif, Warne, Munaf + 6 others


Clearly, if the OZ-Pak tour goes on then Kol and Jaipur will be most effected .... Chennai seems to be losing some of its key overseas players as well .... Hydad could lose all its 3 overseas players with all round capabilities


cheers

 

[NUFAN]

Bangalore Royal Challengers -
Rahul Dravid (icon), Anil Kumble (US$500,000), Jacques Kallis (US$900,000), Zaheer Khan (US$450,000), Mark Boucher (US$450,000), Cameron White (US$500,000), Wasim Jaffer (US$150,000), Dale Steyn (US$325,000), Praveen Kumar

What a brilliant bowling attack in Steyn Zaheer Kumar Kumble and Kallis

Wasim Jaffer
Vindaloo Tonka
Jacques Kallis
Cameron White
Rahul Dravid
Mark Boucher
Papadum Finisher
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan
Dale Steyn
Praveen Kumar

 

[Prince EWS]

Bangalore Royal Challengers -
Rahul Dravid (icon), Anil Kumble (US$500,000), Jacques Kallis (US$900,000), Zaheer Khan (US$450,000), Mark Boucher (US$450,000), Cameron White (US$500,000), Wasim Jaffer (US$150,000), Dale Steyn (US$325,000), Praveen Kumar

What a brilliant bowling attack in Steyn Zaheer Kumar Kumble and Kallis

Wasim Jaffer
Vindaloo Tonka
Jacques Kallis
Cameron White
Rahul Dravid
Mark Boucher
Papadum Finisher
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan
Dale Steyn
Praveen Kumar

Kumar is an allrounder. He wouldn't bat 11.

 

[sledger]

can I vote for "whichever team has matthew hayden on the roster"?

 

[Barney Rubble]

I'm going for Bangalore, they've got Big Cam White. Somerset legend.