***Official*** India in Australia

[vic_orthdox]

Again - bastard and the f-bomb are not racism.

Exactly. They may well find them offensive, and have the right to complain about abusive language, but it's different from racism.

Anyone with in-depth knowledge (I could go look it up, but CBF) tell me, what level offences the most basic:

• abusive language
• racial abuse

offences are, and what the punishment for those are. Are they the same?

 

[duffer]

Exactly. They may well find them offensive, and have the right to complain about abusive language, but it's different from racism.

Anyone with in-depth knowledge (I could go look it up, but CBF) tell me, what level offences the most basic:

• abusive language
• racial abuse

offences are, and what the punishment for those are. Are they the same?

Different offences but both can be similarly damaging and hurtful depending on the person. Should carry similar penalties.

 

[Evermind]

Exactly. They may well find them offensive, and have the right to complain about abusive language, but it's different from racism.

Anyone with in-depth knowledge (I could go look it up, but CBF) tell me, what level offences the most basic:

• abusive language
• racial abuse

offences are, and what the punishment for those are. Are they the same?

Hitler vs Mussolini.

The Australian response is irrational, where one is said to be 100% ok and the other is 100% "bad". Let's call a spade a spade and call both of them reprehensible.

 

[Isolator]

I mean they can't afford to overturn his ban.

A ban meted out (as far as I know) on the basis of one person's word against another. Not convincing.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

A ban meted out (as far as I know) on the basis of one person's word against another. Not convincing.

I am saying, they can not afford to overturn the ban now the Indians have basically given an ultimatum.

And you can't know it was based solely on the word of one person against another's unless you were there, surely.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Hitler vs Mussolini.

The Australian response is irrational, where one is said to be 100% ok and the other is 100% "bad". Let's call a spade a spade and call both of them reprehensible.

Sorry, but don't twist my question. I'm just asking whether or not they carry the same penalty according to ICC guidelines. Clearly I'm not saying that abusive language is OK here, I'm wondering if it carries the same weight of penalty as racial abuse.

 

[pasag]

Hmm, "There are two sides out there, only one is playing cricket", threats of tour boycotts and we haven't even reached Adelaide yet.

 

[SJS]

This is a big test for all concerned. It will be interesting to see who blinks first. ICC has had a precedent earlier in the Hair-Inzy fiasco.....

 

[Cevno]

Hitler vs Mussolini.

The Australian response is irrational, where one is said to be 100% ok and the other is 100% "bad". Let's call a spade a spade and call both of them reprehensible.

Different offences but both can be similarly damaging and hurtful depending on the person. Should carry similar penalties.

agree.
The aussies do not want to accept some other countries interpretation of what is valid or not but want everone to follow theirs.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Good lordie the Indian media haven't held back in their condemnation of the umpiring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHIauv3WEt4

That's a surprise

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Will be interesting to see that if the Indian team do cancel the tour, what the ACB does? Do we have a couple of Australia v Australia A test matches? Does a replacement team get called over?

 

[Son Of Coco]

This doesn't sound good

A boycott would be very poor form.

It seems the BCCI are saying either let Harbajhan off or we're going home. The airport's not far from the city guys....about 5 maxi-taxis should get you there.

 

[jeevan]

Again - bastard and the f-bomb are not racism.

You just dont want to get it, do you.
Racism is just one of the tools available to the verbal abuser.

Bigger question is: do we want to allow players to denigrate each other to gain temporary advantage by distracting your rivals.(Eg calling Inzi Aloo, no swear words, yet the same effect, was wrong by the same reason too).

Most other professional workplaces, and even other sports, do not allow such behavior. Now that this issue has come to the fore, good chance to clean it thoroughly. If Harbhajan and Hogg miss a game or two, so be it. (If proven in either case, hasnt happened yet).

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

agree.
The aussies do not want to accept some other countries interpretation of what is valid or not but want everone to follow theirs.

That isn't the case at all - the problem is you still haven't distinguished between abusive language and racism even though the difference has been illustrated towards you on countless occasions.

Nobody is saying one is OK and the other is wrong - there is just a very obvious distinction between calling someone a ****er and calling someone a monkey.

 

[Evermind]

Sorry, but don't twist my question. I'm just asking whether or not they carry the same penalty according to ICC guidelines. Clearly I'm not saying that abusive language is OK here, I'm wondering if it carries the same weight of penalty as racial abuse.

I'm not sure, but if we agree that both are offensive, then both should be banned. That's the only reasonable way to do it. The Australian have been getting away with abusive language in the past, and if that's put an end to, then "cricket's the winner", to talk in ICC-speak.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

You just dont want to get it, do you.
Racism is just one of the tools available to the verbal abuser.

I actually do get it - thanks for asking.

 

[Cevno]

That's a surprise

What a surprise after what the aussie media did with their attempts to tarnish bhajji.
one even claimed that everything in india is based on caste.
What you give is what you get.

 

[Evermind]

Will be interesting to see that if the Indian team do cancel the tour, what the ACB does? Do we have a couple of Australia v Australia A test matches? Does a replacement team get called over?

Guaranteed that it'll be a much closer game at the WACA in that case.

 

[duffer]

Will be interesting to see that if the Indian team do cancel the tour, what the ACB does? Do we have a couple of Australia v Australia A test matches? Does a replacement team get called over?

Who's available to come over? An Australia v Australia A series would be a huge letdown for me.

 

[stephen]

Hitler vs Mussolini.

The Australian response is irrational, where one is said to be 100% ok and the other is 100% "bad". Let's call a spade a spade and call both of them reprehensible.

I invoke goodwins law!

Seriously, if one cannot tell the difference between deliberately racist remarks and the use of language which is considered "crude" or "foul" then one should not be able to participate in a debate on ethics, law and punishment. Intent and meaning are implicit in the application of law. What Harbi said was intended as a racist comment because of both the intent and meaning of the words used, not because of the word itself. What Hogg said was a more crude term, but the intent and meaning behind it were not racist in nature, nor necessarily even abusive.

I really believe that most of the controversy has been caused by the Indian media blowing things out of proportion - exaggerating and twisting the meaning of events to pander to the masses who follow the religion of cricket in India.