Fiery
Banned
Langer's a moron
-
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Murali's Record
- Thread starter Burgey
- Start date
pasag
RTDAS
The thread starter was pretty clear here.
archie mac
International Coach
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Be interested to see those "few others"? Can only ever remember BhupinderSingh saying that, and even he didn't say it for very long.That is true now, but not all that long ago yourself and a few others dismissed him as a green top bully unworthy of greatness. Most have now, to their credit, admitted they were wrong.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Lillee is an all time great bowler, and his record in the subcontinent does not really exist (too small a sample). It is a blot only in the sense that there are others, who played in the same era, who did everything he did, plus did it in more countries.
Murali is an all time great spinner, and his record in Australia and India is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
Warne is an all time great spinner, and his record in India and West Indies is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
It's really that simple. And in any case, the latter two may be all time great spinners, but I don't like calling them all time great bowlers (there have been fast bowlers who could do demolition jobs on a wearing pitch, as well as them, plus could destroy people on first day of a Test match too). That would confuse them with the guys that really win matches.
In fact, in an all time team, I would have Lillee before either of them. And it wouldn't be a hard decision either.
Murali is an all time great spinner, and his record in Australia and India is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
Warne is an all time great spinner, and his record in India and West Indies is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
It's really that simple. And in any case, the latter two may be all time great spinners, but I don't like calling them all time great bowlers (there have been fast bowlers who could do demolition jobs on a wearing pitch, as well as them, plus could destroy people on first day of a Test match too). That would confuse them with the guys that really win matches.
In fact, in an all time team, I would have Lillee before either of them. And it wouldn't be a hard decision either.
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BhupinderSingh
Banned
Yes,too small a sample but what about the number of ocassions on which he refused to tour subcontinent with lame excuses?
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
Can you show any documented evidence of Lillee refusing to tour subcontinent by giving lame excuses ?
I am sorry but I have to ask this because I have heard it everytime Lillee is discussed but never have I read or seen anything that supports this claim.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
To be frank, I wouldn't want to tour Pakistan as a fast bowler either (and India/Sri Lanka). Plus, I've read a lot of things about Lillee, and not one person who knew him suggests that he would do something like that.
He bowled a crap load of overs because he was by far the best player in the Aussie side, and Chappelli over bowled him a lot. He sucked it up and did it - and got results too. Plus, he did bowl well in flat pitches when he encountered them elsewhere. It's not in his personality to drop out of tours like that.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Sometimes I wonder whether this persona you have against spin bowling is you taking the piss, or you really lack the true knowledge of cricket.Lillee is an all time great bowler, and his record in the subcontinent does not really exist (too small a sample). It is a blot only in the sense that there are others, who played in the same era, who did everything he did, plus did it in more countries.
Murali is an all time great spinner, and his record in Australia and India is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
Warne is an all time great spinner, and his record in India and West Indies is a blot on his record. But there is no one else who did well everywhere he did and doesn't have similar blots on his record.
It's really that simple. And in any case, the latter two may be all time great spinners, but I don't like calling them all time great bowlers (there have been fast bowlers who could do demolition jobs on a wearing pitch, as well as them, plus could destroy people on first day of a Test match too). That would confuse them with the guys that really win matches.
In fact, in an all time team, I would have Lillee before either of them. And it wouldn't be a hard decision either.
Because you're such a good poster I'm going to assume you are taking the piss most of the time, because it makes no sense for you not to understand the brilliance of the art of spin bowling, and how vital it is to test match cricket.
You couldn't name more than 5-7 fast bowlers in history that were better bowlers overall than Warne and Murali IMO.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Haha.
I've conceded that on occasion they can sometimes be useful. You aren't getting any more out of me.
Forget history, here are seven who've played in the last twenty years: Marshall, Ambrose, Imran, Wasim, Hadlee, McGrath, Donald.
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Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
TBF, I'd say I'm very happy there'd be quite a few...
To name a few... Marshall, Donald, Hadlee, Ambrose, McGrath, Lindwall, Lillee, Bedser, Davidson, Statham, Imran Khan, Garner, Adcock, Fazal Mahmood, Trueman, Miller, Wasim Akram, Holding, Johnston, Peter Pollock, Bishop, Walsh, Shaun Pollock for the first half of his career, Waqar for the first quarter(ish) of his career. There are plenty others who I'd certainly at the very least consider.
To name a few... Marshall, Donald, Hadlee, Ambrose, McGrath, Lindwall, Lillee, Bedser, Davidson, Statham, Imran Khan, Garner, Adcock, Fazal Mahmood, Trueman, Miller, Wasim Akram, Holding, Johnston, Peter Pollock, Bishop, Walsh, Shaun Pollock for the first half of his career, Waqar for the first quarter(ish) of his career. There are plenty others who I'd certainly at the very least consider.
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
Debatable at best.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Warne ****s on Donald, I'm sorry because I'm a Donald fan, but Warne was a much much better bowler. Murali too.Haha.
I've conceded that on occasion they can sometimes be useful. You aren't getting any more out of me.
Forget history, here are seven who've played in the last twenty years: Marshall, Ambrose, Imran, Wasim, Hadlee, McGrath, Donald.
The rest are close calls, but I'd take Warne over Wasim. That whole 'twenty year' claim isn't as extravagant as you claim either since you've chosen an era with many of the great fast bowlers in history.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Corrected.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
How is Walsh honestly going to go down as a better bowler than Warne and Murali Richard?
shortpitched713
International Captain
Certainly comparable bowlers statistically. But can they bowl 30 over spells?
...Thought so.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Of course, but the fact is, its close enough to debate.