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*Official* South Africa in Pakistan

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
How Yasir Hameed has not managed to cement a spot in the ODI team is simply beyond belief. He has an average of over 41 as an opener, clearly better than any of our other tried failures. Maybe he ought to be more of a "sifarish" as BS would call it, if he wants his fair due.
Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'sifarish' mean? Also, Hameed averages 38 as an opener against ODI standard teams. No doubt he puts runs on the board, but I can't help but feel his slow scoring doesn't sit favourably with the selectors.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
From what i have seen of Imran Nazir hes not ready to learn or doesnt want to learn, being sent as an opener he just thinks he has to go at almost every single ball. He obviously has alot of talent but its being wasted. I beleive nazir or any pakistani opener can only change if he is sent with an experienced batsman (younis khan ideal) who can guide him to play positively and not play unecessary shots, the problem with the pakistani opening pairs is they are all inexperienced and nobody seems to have the time to guide them since all other batsman have their own different and important roles to play. BUT i have a really strong belief that younis khan can take this responsibilty and can be sent as an opener. Younis khan is coming inside the first 5 overs anyway so there will be nothing to loose for him.

Secondly this will give more batsman the opportunity to play in the middle order, like Yasir Hammed, Faisal Iqbal or whoever is performing well domestically.
Why would you want Younis Khan opening the batting? He doesn't deserve to be in the team in the first place, his average is skewed significantly by cashing in against minnows and the only real sucess he has had has been batting at #6, where he's scored 7 fifties in 23 innings against ODI class sides at an average of around 40. If he's going to be in the side at all, which I don't think he should be, it should be batting at #6 and not up the order.

If you want somebody mature to open the innings, don't look past Yasir Hameed who has done a fine job in the past and has been around for a while now. If you combine him with a young talent like Salman Butt, then Pakistan will be much a better side. Nazir is rubbish and doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the side, seemingly the only reason he was ever selected was because he can hit the ball hard and far.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Butt needs to be in the side for Nazir. Maybe open with him and Akmal. Personally I think we need to have as few "openers" in the side as possible because frankly, they're all poo, and it doesn't take much of a specialized technique to open in ODIs anyway.
Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed, there is your opening pair. Akmal has the ability to do the job, but specialists are probably a better option.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Khalid Latif certainly looks a good prospect, him and his mates smashed the Australian A bowling attack around just a few months ago and has a superb record. 4 centuries and 2 fifties in 20 innings is very good, especially for a middle order batsman.
Hes an opener, tbh.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'sifarish' mean? Also, Hameed averages 38 as an opener against ODI standard teams. No doubt he puts runs on the board, but I can't help but feel his slow scoring doesn't sit favourably with the selectors.
Something that BS used in this post. I guess used to describe players that get in on political/family/random considerations with chairman, etc. Undoubtedly a sad part of cricket in Pakistan, but its the reality.

And I could care less about Hameed's rate of scoring. At least there is scoring involved, and that is the key problem with our openers, they don't score. Its also coincidentally the reason they have Nazir in the side as well, for his quick "scoring".
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed, there is your opening pair. Akmal has the ability to do the job, but specialists are probably a better option.
Yeah probably, although if the presence of both Misbah and Younis is insisted upon by the selectors then I probably would rather keep Butt out, especially considering the poor form he's in currently.
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed, there is your opening pair. Akmal has the ability to do the job, but specialists are probably a better option.
i agree with u
i also think for one dayers shoaib malik should play one down.
yasir
butt
malik
younis
yousuf
masbah
akmal
afridi
and soo on
 

godofcricket

State 12th Man
Why would you want Younis Khan opening the batting? He doesn't deserve to be in the team in the first place, his average is skewed significantly by cashing in against minnows and the only real sucess he has had has been batting at #6, where he's scored 7 fifties in 23 innings against ODI class sides at an average of around 40. If he's going to be in the side at all, which I don't think he should be, it should be batting at #6 and not up the order.
Look you have to understand this, younis khan cannot possibly be dropped at the moment and he wont be batting at No.6. You shouldnt assume something which wont happen, neither can they drop him and neither will he be batting at No.6 for the near future...the reason i was saying he should come as an opener is because firstly i believe he can atleast manage 25 to 30 odd runs (which is 100x better than say a 10/2 start) and secondly he should back, help and force the other inexperienced opener to play some intelligent cricket, inbetween overs tell him what he should avoid and acknowledge his good strokes etc.. Unless pakistan finds another proper/reliable middle order batsman they wont take the risk of dropping an experienced batsman.

You might be right about Yasir Hameed playing instead of Imran Nazir, that might be a good move and i have nothing against it but i think pakistan strategy to send two inexperienced batsman at the top has always faltered and i beleive it will continue to falter because forget the inexperienced batsman but the senior batsman dont back themselves and they lack confidence.
 

godofcricket

State 12th Man
i agree with u
i also think for one dayers shoaib malik should play one down.
yasir
butt
malik
younis
yousuf
masbah
akmal
afridi
and soo on
Sending malik one-down is actually a nice move. Pakistan really need to back themselves to win big matches, they will never succeed with the current line-up and the lack of confidence in their batting line-up. They need to make some brave moves specially current situation demands the captain to lead from the front.
 

pup11

International Coach
Malik has had most of his success batting at no.3 and the late Bob Woolmer also was a supporter of Malik batting at 3, but then it meant that Yunus khan had to bat at 6 which was almost a waste of a batsman like Yunus, but now with no Inzy in the side Yunus can bat at 4 and MoYo can bat at 5.
Btw Afridi has expressed a wish to his coach and captain that he wants to open the batting in Odi cricket so he can take advantage of the fielding restrictions and play his natural game, what do you guys think would that be a good move?
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Malik has had most of his success batting at no.3 and the late Bob Woolmer also was a supporter of Malik batting at 3, but then it meant that Yunus khan had to bat at 6 which was almost a waste of a batsman like Yunus, but now with no Inzy in the side Yunus can bat at 4 and MoYo can bat at 5.
Btw Afridi has expressed a wish to his coach and captain that he wants to open the batting in Odi cricket so he can take advantage of the fielding restrictions and play his natural game, what do you guys think would that be a good move?
Afridi has to realise he's in the team for his bowling. I don't have stats on it, but I've always got the impression that he took his bowling less seriously when he opened the batting and believed his own batting hype. He's picked for his bowling primarily and his batting is an added bonus; that's how it should be IMO and opening up with him regularly would play havoc with his mindset. I'm still, like others, very much a fan of a top three consisting of Hameed, Butt and Malik.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Unless pakistan finds another proper/reliable middle order batsman they wont take the risk of dropping an experienced batsman.
Younis Khan is an experienced and proper batsman, but he certainly is not reliable in one-day international cricket. He's failed to cross 25 in 14 of his last 20 completed innings. That's stunning mediocrity. Admittedly he counts 101, 93, 55 and 47 among his 6 ventures past 25, but he also has 8 single-digit scores in his 14 "failures". Younis Khan is a very mediocre ODI batsman and should not (effectively by default) be preventing an younger, less experienced batsman from getting an opportunity.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed, there is your opening pair. Akmal has the ability to do the job, but specialists are probably a better option.
Salman Butt isn't exactly the strokeplayer to foil Hameed though. This said as a Butt advocate.
 

godofcricket

State 12th Man
Younis Khan is an experienced and proper batsman, but he certainly is not reliable in one-day international cricket. He's failed to cross 25 in 14 of his last 20 completed innings. That's stunning mediocrity. Admittedly he counts 101, 93, 55 and 47 among his 6 ventures past 25, but he also has 8 single-digit scores in his 14 "failures". Younis Khan is a very mediocre ODI batsman and should not (effectively by default) be preventing an younger, less experienced batsman from getting an opportunity.
I admit khan is a mediocre ODi batsman. But at the moment pakistans line-up is not filled with world class batters either other than Mohammad Yusuf, we havent got a Hayden, Gilchrist, Ponting, Symonds sort of batting and neither it is that consistent and this seems embarrasing but khan is our 3rd best batsman after Yusuf and Malik. So whatever his scores say in the past 8 to 10 games his place is permenant as long as a new batsman who looks much more promising and consistent and that has to start from dropping players like nazir, hafeez, butt and maybe misbah. I doubt they will drop misbah that quickly either.

At the moment pakistan is not thinking of dropping younis khan, if it was the case then the first signs we will see is that his batting order will change, which doesnt seem to be the case. He just made another 50run partnership in the last match and thats exactly why hes in the team.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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You're not going to find better batsmen than Younis if you don't try potentially better batsmen than Younis. It's not as though he's scoring well enough to be a stop-gap while younger players come into the team. He just is not contributing, and if Pakistan really thinks that they won't find a middle-order batsman who can average better than 30, that's a bleak resignation.

Surely a Khurram Manzoor or a Fawad Alam should get a chance in his place. Again, there's no sense in Younis playing by default. The only way to justify keeping someone in as an experienced player is if he's scoring runs. Otherwise he's more useless than a mediocre young player. The difference being that the younger player is a statement of proactivity.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Salman Butt isn't exactly the strokeplayer to foil Hameed though. This said as a Butt advocate.
Screw strokeplayers. We're in this mess right now of having no settled opening pair because we put faith in crap "strokeplayers" like Nazir. Consistently getting a start of something like 40 for one or no wickets after the first ten would be infinitely better than the situations we get ourselves in right now, even if Nazir fires 1 in 15 times and gives us a perfect start. I would back Hameed and Butt to give us that, and theres not much more we should ask of them at this point.
 

godofcricket

State 12th Man
You're not going to find better batsmen than Younis if you don't try potentially better batsmen than Younis. It's not as though he's scoring well enough to be a stop-gap while younger players come into the team. He just is not contributing, and if Pakistan really thinks that they won't find a middle-order batsman who can average better than 30, that's a bleak resignation.

Surely a Khurram Manzoor or a Fawad Alam should get a chance in his place. Again, there's no sense in Younis playing by default. The only way to justify keeping someone in as an experienced player is if he's scoring runs. Otherwise he's more useless than a mediocre young player. The difference being that the younger player is a statement of proactivity.
I understand ur point of view, i will come back to this tommarrow, i completely disagree with ur views on this. Got alot of work....as i write this guess what? pakistan have dropped hafeez and nazir is likely to be replaced by yasir hameed as i indicated.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Screw strokeplayers. We're in this mess right now of having no settled opening pair because we put faith in crap "strokeplayers" like Nazir. Consistently getting a start of something like 40 for one or no wickets after the first ten would be infinitely better than the situations we get ourselves in right now, even if Nazir fires 1 in 15 times and gives us a perfect start. I would back Hameed and Butt to give us that, and theres not much more we should ask of them at this point.
Was drawing on this tbh:

Very good average though and would be a good foil to some of the stroke players than Pakistan posess.
And for the record, I know he was talking about strokeplayers in the Pakistan middle order.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Something that BS used in this post. I guess used to describe players that get in on political/family/random considerations with chairman, etc. Undoubtedly a sad part of cricket in Pakistan, but its the reality.

And I could care less about Hameed's rate of scoring. At least there is scoring involved, and that is the key problem with our openers, they don't score. Its also coincidentally the reason they have Nazir in the side as well, for his quick "scoring".
A sad part indeed, and something that is very prominent in both Indian and Pakistan cricket unfortunately. I fully agree with you, I don't care how slowly Hameed scores (unless it handicaps his team), so long as he is putting runs on the board. A strike rate of 67 is a touch too slow, if he can lift that above 70 then he should definitely be selected. I'm just saying the Pakistan selectors are holding that against him, which is unfair given how terrible the rest of their openers have been lately.
 

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