Who are the biggest chokers in World Sport?

[Tom Halsey]

FFS, I have given England credit and said that they deserve to be where they are right now, because they have performed better when it comes.

"France, Australia and New Zealand would all be more deserving winners than England IMO."

Hmm.

 

[cpr]

Heh, all this talk about the difference between peaking at the right time to win a tournament, and being the best over the years before, reminds me of Denmark at Euro 92. Didnt even bother to try in qualifying, only got in because Yugoslavia spontaneously combusted. Then won the bugger. Talk about peaking

 

[Matteh]

Yeah sorry, I didn't check the earlier posts until after my own. And I agree with you - England's footballers haven't been chokers as such, with the possible exception of Euro1996 when they should have seen of a really mediocre german side and just didn't play for most of the game.

As if it was. Aging would be how i'd describe it.

 

[Goughy]

Yeah sorry, I didn't check the earlier posts until after my own. And I agree with you - England's footballers haven't been chokers as such, with the possible exception of Euro1996 when they should have seen of a really mediocre german side and just didn't play for most of the game.

Hard to call England chokers in Euro 96 when they entered the Tournament as only 5th favs.

Germany were the favourites to win it at 4-1, Italy were 5-1, Holland were 11-2, France were 6-1, England were 7-1, Spain were 8-1 and Portugal were 10-1.

 

[cpr]

Didnt exactly bottle the semi either, from what i remember we were desperatly close to winning it (gazza was millimetres away from connecting with one at the far post in ET, cant remember but there were other chances). Just so happened we missed one penalty, that was the crunch.

 

[Matteh]

Didnt exactly bottle the semi either, from what i remember we were desperatly close to winning it (gazza was millimetres away from connecting with one at the far post in ET, cant remember but there were other chances). Just so happened we missed one penalty, that was the crunch.

Anderton hit the post as well i believe.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Anderton hit the post as well i believe.

Ahhhh! Darren Anderton. One of only a handful of sportsman to spend more time on the physio's bench than Shane Bond. Nice chin too.

 

[cpr]

TBH i'm slightly concerned about Louis Saha's relationship with our physio. A new sicknote for the 21st century

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I wouldn't worry cpr. Saha's over rated.... Not enough pace for my liking.

Now, Robert Jarni... He had a bit of pace.

 

[Matteh]

I wouldn't worry cpr. Saha's over rated.... Not enough pace for my liking.

Now, Robert Jarni... He had a bit of pace.

Jarni went to Coventry for about a week before being sold onto Real Madrid. Would have kept them up imo.

 

[cpr]

Dunno, does have a bit of pace when he's got two working legs. Thing about him is somehow he manages to keep the ball. Doesnt look skillful doing it, but 2 or 3 men can try and tackle him and somehow he comes out the other side with the ball (usually via 6 deflections of shins)

 

[wpdavid]

Hard to call England chokers in Euro 96 when they entered the Tournament as only 5th favs.

Germany were the favourites to win it at 4-1, Italy were 5-1, Holland were 11-2, France were 6-1, England were 7-1, Spain were 8-1 and Portugal were 10-1.

Not sure what the pre-tournament odds have to do with it, tbh - they simply reflected our failure to qualify for the previous WC and not having to qualify for Euro96, which was fair enough. By the time we played Germany in the semis, things were very different though. Quite obviously we had our best chance to win something in 30 years - the side was playing well, and the opposition wasn't special. tbf my original judgement was that this was the "possible exception" to my not really viewing our footballers as chokers, and it still isn't the term I'd use. But they definitely didn't play as well as they should've done in that particular match, even if Gazza & Anderton came agonisingly close to winning it in extra time. But we should've seen them off long before then and I thought they froze to some extent in the 90 minutes. It certainly felt very different to 1990, when we'd played out of our skins against a really good German side. Then, I felt gutted, but proud of their performance. In 1996, I just felt we had missed a glorious opportunity because we still had a mental block where the Germans were concerned. He won't get any cedit for it nowadays, but that is one of the things that changed for the better under Sven (ditto Argentina).

 

[Matteh]

Not sure what the pre-tournament odds have to do with it, tbh - they simply reflected our failure to qualify for the previous WC and not having to qualify for Euro96, which was fair enough. By the time we played Germany in the semis, things were very different though. Quite obviously we had our best chance to win something in 30 years - the side was playing well, and the opposition wasn't special. tbf my original judgement was that this was the "possible exception" to my not really viewing our footballers as chokers, and it still isn't the term I'd use. But they definitely didn't play as well as they should've done in that particular match, even if Gazza & Anderton came agonisingly close to winning it in extra time. But we should've seen them off long before then and I thought they froze to some extent in the 90 minutes. It certainly felt very different to 1990, when we'd played out of our skins against a really good German side. Then, I felt gutted, but proud of their performance. In 1996, I just felt we had missed a glorious opportunity because we still had a mental block where the Germans were concerned. He won't get any cedit for it nowadays, but that is one of the things that changed for the better under Sven (ditto Argentina).

Still vastly underrating the 96 Germans.

 

[wpdavid]

Still vastly underrating the 96 Germans.

Either that or you're still vastly over-rating them.

I'm not saying they were poor. Simply that a side with everything in our favour (good players fit & in form, home advantage, etc) should have seen them off. Just like Italy & others do when they're in a position to win tournaments. But we're probably arguing over minutiae here: going back to the thread title, I wouldn't use the word 'choke'.

 

[wpdavid]

Whilst not entirely subscribing the current England side = chokers pov, today's game has given us a pretty big clue why others see them in those terms. Yet again, when it really matters, half the side go missing. Sitters missed. Keeper dodgy. When the heat's on, yet again they feeze. Chokers? It's not the most unreasonable argument ever heard.

 

[grecian]

Whilst not entirely subscribing the current England side = chokers pov, today's game has given us a pretty big clue why others see them in those terms. Yet again, when it really matters, half the side go missing. Sitters missed. Keeper dodgy. When the heat's on, yet again they feeze. Chokers? It's not the most unreasonable argument ever heard.

Not really. To my mind "chokers", suggest that we should win and don't. Why, other then pure English arrogance, should we of won today. Russia have a bigger population then us, are massively in to Football, had home advantage and were playing on a pitch that they were used to.

The calling of English cricket and football teams chokers, is only because many people over-rate them massively. Average is as average does.

 

[wpdavid]

Not really. To my mind "chokers", suggest that we should win and don't. Why, other then pure English arrogance, should we of won today. Russia have a bigger population then us, are massively in to Football, had home advantage and were playing on a pitch that they were used to.

The calling of English cricket and football teams chokers, is only because many people over-rate them massively. Average is as average does.

Yes, I'd have to completely agree with your last point. Some of what's been written about the 2000's generation of footballers has been nothing short of ludicrous, as anyone who actually watches the games realised eyars ago.
What is frustrating is how they have failed to come on as players though. Almost to a man, they peaked in their early 20's and most have actually become less effective at a time when they should have matured. Perhaps when you're a millionaire by the age of 25, the hunger just isn't there. I certainly think that some of Toshack's comments about the Welsh yesterday ar actually true about the English players.

As for today's game, I can't fault your logic, except that the chances were there to win the game & better sides would have taken them. Had we been outplayed & the pitch obviously played a part, then fair enough, but that wasn't what happened.

 

[grecian]

Oh, I dunno, I thought we were pretty much outplayed in open play, tbf. We created a few chances from punts down field and set-pieces, pretty much like a mid-table Prem outfit, playing against a top side.

Well done the FA amd Macca, you've turned us into Middlesborough, ffs

 

[wpdavid]

Oh, I dunno, I thought we were pretty much outplayed in open play, tbf. We created a few chances from punts down field and set-pieces, pretty much like a mid-table Prem outfit, playing against a top side.

Well done the FA amd Macca, you've turned us into Middlesborough, ffs

Yes, I'd preferred not to dwell on our inability to create a thing by stringing some passes together, but that's always the way with us, isn't it. tbh I didn't see any of it at the time, purely relying on Five Live & Football Unlimited's running commentary. I've subsequently seen the goals on C4 News. Sad to say, I'd have to agree with those who blame Robionson for the winner. There are other options than pushing those shots back out towards the penalty spot.

I suppose I've seen worse. I was at Wembley when Denmark beat us in 1983, and that really was dreadful. I remember Taylor sending out a ludicrous formation that lost 2-0 in Norway to keep us out of the 1994 WC. Perhaps thinking of even worse England performances may take my mind of today's debacle.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'd say today's performance was a borderline choke. We're ranked about 15 places above Russia, had recently beaten them 3-0 and were 1-0 ahead with under half-an-hour to go. We'd also spurned two absolutely gilt-edged chances to extend our lead and didn't even need to win the game, just to avoid defeat!

I do think we have a tendancy to overrate ourselves, but today was a game we certainly shouldn't have lost from the position we were in.

Actually, scrub borderline, today was a choke, plain and simple.