Who was better: Hadlee or McGrath?

[silentstriker]

Probably due to the better bowling...

And the better pitches, smaller boundaries, better bats.

 

[Athlai]

Hypothetically speaking :
If Hadlee had Warne at the other end, would his figures have been better or worse ?
If McGrath did not have Warne at the other end, would his figures be better or worse ?

If McGrath wasn't in the team with the highest quality batsman in the world would his average be better or worse?

 

[silentstriker]

If McGrath wasn't in the team with the highest quality batsman in the world would his average be better or worse?

McGrath would get the better of Ponting, and Hayden would have zero chance. But obviously his average would be slightly worse. He has done well against the great players of other countries, so I don't see it being worse by a significant margin.

 

[The Sean]

If McGrath wasn't in the team with the highest quality batsman in the world would his average be better or worse?

Given his record against the very best opposition batsmen, I wouldn't see it making a lot of difference.

 

[Athlai]

Given his record against the very best opposition batsmen, I wouldn't see it making a lot of difference.

I meant it in not only the way of him bowling against them, but how it affects the matches he plays in, as his batsman can be relied on to score a good total he shouldn't be under as much pressure with the ball as Hadlee was.

 

[silentstriker]

I meant it in not only the way of him bowling against them, but how it affects the matches he plays in, as his batsman can be relied on to score a good total he shouldn't be under as much pressure with the ball as Hadlee was.

Well we know what he can do 'under pressure' when his team doesn't score a lot.

 

[Athlai]

Well we know what he can do 'under pressure' when his team doesn't score a lot.

They scored 380 in the second innings.

 

[The Sean]

Ah, fair enough - you mean that he wouldn't have been under the same kind of "If I don't perform well, we're gone" kind of pressure that comes with carrying a team the way Hadlee did.

Would have been interesting to see how they swapped places, for sure - sadly it's just another one for the hypotheticals.

 

[silentstriker]

They scored 380 in the second innings.

Um, but when he came on his team was 190 all out in the first Test of an Ashes series. And he got 5/54. If that's not under pressure, than perhaps I do not know the meaning.

 

[Athlai]

Ah, fair enough - you mean that he wouldn't have been under the same kind of "If I don't perform well, we're gone" kind of pressure that comes with carrying a team the way Hadlee did.

Would have been interesting to see how they swapped places, for sure - sadly it's just another one for the hypotheticals.

Exactly, both are greats but I think Hadlee was a legend for what he did for NZ cricket.

 

[Athlai]

Um, but when he came on his team was 190 all out in the first Test of an Ashes series. And he got 5/54. If that's not under pressure, than perhaps I do not know the meaning.

Try this on for size.

 

[silentstriker]

Try this on for size.

What's that got do with McGrath? I never said Hadlee didn't do anything like that. I said McGrath performed under pressure as well.

 

[Ikki]

McGrath would get the better of Ponting, and Hayden would have zero chance. But obviously his average would be slightly worse. He has done well against the great players of other countries, so I don't see it being worse by a significant margin.

I don't think so.

 

[Ikki]

Yea, bowlers hunt in pairs, and if the other fellow is going to release the pressure every time he bowls, it makes it much harder for you to take wickets. Much respect to guys who were the only world class bowlers in their side, like Hadlee or Lillee (with all due respect to Thommo, but he wasn't world class, especially later on) or Murali.

"Richard Hadlee at one end, Ilford seconds at the other." Says it all, IMO.

None of those bowlers had to go hunting alone. Thommo was world-class; Hadlee, at the least had Chatfield or Taylor; and Murali has certainly had Vaas. Pressure in keeping runs has much more to do with economy than average.

 

[The Sean]

None of those bowlers had to go hunting alone. Thommo was world-class; Hadlee, at the least had Chatfield or Taylor; and Murali has certainly had Vaas. Pressure in keeping runs has much more to do with economy than average.

To be fair though, Thommo and Vaas are a class (or two) above the likes of Chatfield.

 

[archie mac]

To be fair though, Thommo and Vaas are a class (or two) above the likes of Chatfield.

What was Chatfield's Eco rate? I remember him being interviewed and saying his role was to keep things tight while Paddles claimed the wickets

 

[Athlai]

What's that got do with McGrath? I never said Hadlee didn't do anything like that. I said McGrath performed under pressure as well.

It was my implication at a real pressure situation, not that McGrath didn't do extremely well in said match.

 

[Days of Grace]

Try this on for size.

Interesting to note that it was in fact Richard Collinge that got the first three batsmen out, and thus it was Collinge that started the rout.

 

[Days of Grace]

Hadlee, at the least had Chatfield or Taylor

Bruce Taylor retired in 1973, the same year that Hadlee made his debut.

The bowlers that 'helped' Hadlee throughout his long career would include Collinge, Chatfield, Snedden, and in the later part, Morrison.

 

[JBH001]

What was Chatfield's Eco rate? I remember him being interviewed and saying his role was to keep things tight while Paddles claimed the wickets

Pretty damn low, iirc. I think it was in the low 2 - 2.5 range. And dont forget about Lance Cairns either, he was another able foil to Hadlee as well. He too had a low econ, though not as low as Chatfield. However, both their SR's are pretty high, and their averages, iirc, are 30+ and their wickets/test ratio hover around the 3/test mark.

But Hadlee certainly did have some significant support for a period of his career. It would be interesting to record his stats outside this period of support. In the same way, Lillee also had significant support (Thommo, Gilmour, Pascoe, and Alderman - who ruled in English conditions) throughout his career and Murali gets it from (an often under-rated) Vaas. However, tbf, none of these support bowlers can be reckoned as world-class in the same way as Warne (who, in any case, is not a support bowler).

As to the thread. I vote for Hadlee. I think he was marginally better.