Should Australia select more youngsters??

[Cricket_Fanatic]

You just seem like a bit of a bully, having read a few other threads!

But never mind. let's get on with the cricket chat.

I think Australia filter their players through nicely, and force - most of the time - their players to earn a test spot, instead of being put in under the belief of being the "next big thing". Certainly, there are some who come in earlier than others, but they've still had a season or three to make their mark on the domestic scene!

 

[Goughy]

I wasn't calling his opinion pathetic, I was calling Watson's batting average of 49 pathetic. I wouldn't say my opinion is better, but I think it's widely regarded that Watson is a very good player who has the potential to be a world-class all-rounder, he's just been very unfortunate with injuries so far in his career.

No doubt he has been unlucky with injuries, but a potential World-class all-rounder? I severely doubt that.

Firstly he is 26, so potential is a word that is getting old now.

Secondly, an allrounder needs to be strong in their bowling early as its usually the first to decline. Watson averages less than 2 wkts a FC game and his bowling looks pretty ordinary and unthreatening. Nothing at International level to suggest his FC and List A average is unfair to him.

He is certainly capable of being a decent batsman IMO at International level. However, I doubt he is one of the top 6 or 7 bats in Aus and his bowling isnt strong enough to compensate for not selecting your best bats.

I would certainly disagree with the analysis of him as a potential world-class all-rounder. Maybe a few years ago before the stress fracture but at 26 with ordinary seam bowling one thinks that assessment is too generous.

 

[Athlai]

Disagree really, a strong debating voice is hardly bullying in discussions. But your quite right in suggesting that we all just move on here. As for Australia selecting more youngsters?

I think they develop younger players so well that they already get top class exposure before getting their international caps. Brilliant structure IMO.

 

[Perm]

You just seem like a bit of a bully, having read a few other threads!

I can assure you I'm not.

 

[Matt79]

And he'll smash anyone who says differently!

 

[Perm]

No doubt he has been unlucky with injuries, but a potential World-class all-rounder? I severely doubt that.

Firstly he is 26, so potential is a word that is getting old now.

Secondaly, an allrounder needs to be strong in their bowling early as its usually the first to decline. Watson averages less than 2 wkts a FC game and his bowling looks pretty ordinary and unthreatening. Nothing at International level to suggest his FC and List A average is unfair to him.

He is certainly capable of being a decent batsman IMO at International level. However, I doubt he is one of the top 6 or 7 bats in Aus and his bowling isnt strong enough to compensate for not selecting your best bats.

I would certainly disagree with the analysis of him as a potential world-class all-rounder. Maybe a few years ago before the stress fracture but at 26 with ordinary seam bowling one thinks that assessment is too generous.

Yes he's 26, that still leaves possibly another 10 years of international cricket, if he doesn't continue on with his injury problems. He's still young, in terms of international experience, so I think that potential is still a fitting word in his case, as he's still a young player in the selectors eyes.

Watson's bowling is his weaker discipline, that's plain to see, and his FC stats further back that up. He only bowls 15 overs a game, although I assume he's played a few matches as a specialist batsman. Also, he only just averages under 2 wickets a game in FC cricket, once you take out those games where he played as a specialist batsman I think that statistic will appear a bit more favourable. However, in saying this, I don't think Watson will be a big wicket-taking bowler in international cricket, and his primary duty will be to bowl with economy and accuracy, give the main bowlers a rest, and pick up a few wickets. He isn't a strike bowler and never will be because he doesn't have the variations.

He isn't one of the 6 best batsman in Australia, there are others like David Hussey and older players like Darren Lehmann and Michael Bevan who are better than him in that regard, but Watson is an all-rounder, so it's not really a fair comparison. If he did give up his bowling, which he is very reluctant to do, he could become a much better batsman and could make the side on his batting alone.

 

[Perm]

And he'll smash anyone who says differently!

You know it

 

[Goughy]

Yes he's 26, that still leaves possibly another 10 years of international cricket, if he doesn't continue on with his injury problems. He's still young, in terms of international experience, so I think that potential is still a fitting word in his case, as he's still a young player in the selectors eyes.

Watson's bowling is his weaker discipline, that's plain to see, and his FC stats further back that up. He only bowls 15 overs a game, although I assume he's played a few matches as a specialist batsman. Also, he only just averages under 2 wickets a game in FC cricket, once you take out those games where he played as a specialist batsman I think that statistic will appear a bit more favourable. However, in saying this, I don't think Watson will be a big wicket-taking bowler in international cricket, and his primary duty will be to bowl with economy and accuracy, give the main bowlers a rest, and pick up a few wickets. He isn't a strike bowler and never will be because he doesn't have the variations.

He isn't one of the 6 best batsman in Australia, there are others like David Hussey and older players like Darren Lehmann and Michael Bevan who are better than him in that regard, but Watson is an all-rounder, so it's not really a fair comparison. If he did give up his bowling, which he is very reluctant to do, he could become a much better batsman and could make the side on his batting alone.

So basically you are saying he wouldnt be picked for his batting or for his bowling but because he can do a bit of both?

Thats not a potential world-class allrounder. Thats the definition of a player that weakens a strong team. A player like that isnt needed for Australia.

If you look at all the better allrounders around the World, all would be picked for their stronger suit. Kallis-Batting, Pollock and Flintoff- Bowling etc

Noone should be picked for doing a bit of both. Thats the reason why players like Kemp and Hall fail to make an impact at Test level.

2nd rate bat and 3rd rate bowler does not equal World-class talent.

Also how are you so sure that stopping bowling would make him 1 of the top batsmen in Australia? Confused as to how that works and how you can predict with such clarity.

 

[chaminda_00]

Watson is better batsmen then David Hussey, he would be in the top 10 FC bats in the country. ODs top 15. If people just looked at him as specialist batsmen, he would be seen as next big thing after Clarke. Still reckon he should give up bowling and try and make it as specialist batsmen. He will be next in line after Hayden and co retire.

 

[Perm]

So basically you are saying he wouldnt be picked for his batting or for his bowling but because he can do a bit of both?

I agree, he wouldn't make the team as a specialist bowler or specialist batsman. But he's an all-rounder, meaning that he makes the side because he can do well in all disciplines.

Thats not a potential world-class allrounder. Thats the definition of a player that weakens a strong team. A player like that isnt needed for Australia.

A potential world-class all-rounder is somebody who can perform creditibly in both disciplines. If Watson did get his fitness sorted he could only strengthen Australia, as they would have a genuine 5th bowling option and a strong batsman at #6.

I agree, he wouldn't make the team as a specialist bowler or specialist batsman.]Noone should be picked for doing a bit of both. Thats the reason why players like Kemp and Hall fail to make an impact at Test level.

Justin Kemp has only played 4 Tests, pretty hard to make an impact in that short space of time. Although he did help to save the 1st Test against Australia in 2005, as well as helping to bowl South Africa to victory against Sri Lanka in 2001. Andrew Hall has an an impact at Test level, obviously not as much as South Africa were looking for, but an impact nonetheless. A couple of poor performances on flat tracks have pushed his bowling average very high, which isn't an accurate reflection on him. Also, Watson is a better FC cricketer than both of these two, IMO anyway.

2nd rate bat and 3rd rate bowler does not equal World-class talent.

Not at the moment, obviously. The key word is potential, which you think ceases to exist because Watson is 26.

Also how are you so sure that stopping bowling would make him 1 of the top batsmen in Australia? Confused as to how that works and how you can predict with such clarity.

I used the word 'could', as in, it may happen. I think that it will happen if Watson choose that course, but as I mentioned he is very reluctant to do so. There have been players in the past who have given away their bowling for any number of reasons, and doing so has made them batter batsman because it allows them to focus on one aspect of their game.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Australia picks the 11 best players in the country. Simple as that.

How is Clarke the youngest we've picked?

Johnson is only like 20 or 21, Shaun Tait wouldnt be much older....

Johnson is 26.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Watson is better batsmen then David Hussey, he would be in the top 10 FC bats in the country. ODs top 15. If people just looked at him as specialist batsmen, he would be seen as next big thing after Clarke. Still reckon he should give up bowling and try and make it as specialist batsmen. He will be next in line after Hayden and co retire.

Exactly. He has an exceptional batting record (FC average of just under 50) and is only rated poorly by many because of his injuries and average bowling ability.

I hate how some people say it is his fault he's getting injured, though.

 

[Perm]

Watson is better batsmen then David Hussey, he would be in the top 10 FC bats in the country. ODs top 15. If people just looked at him as specialist batsmen, he would be seen as next big thing after Clarke. Still reckon he should give up bowling and try and make it as specialist batsmen. He will be next in line after Hayden and co retire.

How can you say he's a better batsman than David Hussey? I don't think he is one of the top 10 FC batsman in Australia.

Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
M. Hussey
Clarke
Gilchrist
Rogers
Lehmann
D. Hussey
Katich
Hodge
Love
di Venuto
Bevan
Maher
Martyn

Tell me, who are the 9 batsman who are better than him?

 

[Perm]

I hate how some people say it is his fault he's getting injured, though.

It quite possibly is though, and this matter has been discussed at length. I think it was TT Boy who had some very good thoughts on this, claiming that Watson works out too much and doesn't develop his body like he should. Being a personal trainer, I trust his opinion, and I think it was a fair analysis. Obviously you can't blame all his injuries on him, but there are some he should be accountable for.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Bevan's retired, as has Martyn. He's better than di Venuto, Love, and Maher at this current time.

 

[Athlai]

It quite possibly is though, and this matter has been discussed at length. I think it was TT Boy who had some very good thoughts on this, claiming that Watson works out too much and doesn't develop his body like he should. Being a personal trainer, I trust his opinion, and I think it was a fair analysis. Obviously you can't blame all his injuries on him, but there are some he should be accountable for.

You'd think someone would pass the information on to Watson though?

 

[vic_orthdox]

It quite possibly is though, and this matter has been discussed at length. I think it was TT Boy who had some very good thoughts on this, claiming that Watson works out too much and doesn't develop his body like he should. Being a personal trainer, I trust his opinion, and I think it was a fair analysis. Obviously you can't blame all his injuries on him, but there are some he should be accountable for.

There was a belief that Watson was doing the wrong sort of weights, trying to get "big" rather than injury proof himself. However, for the past year or so (from memory) he has been given a more core-based program to help prevent injuries.

The only injuries in which the finger could possibly be pointed at Watson are the two recurrances of the hamstring injury straight after recommencing playing. And that's just a "possibly" - on the proviso he was doubtful himself that he was right.

 

[Goughy]

The only area I would be worried in is the lack of opportunities.

Since 2000 Australia have only given debuts to 15 players.

Thos 15 players have a combined 111 Test caps. That is absolutely nothing. Since Australia have played 85 Tests. Thats 935 caps.

Players ebuting in the last nearly 8 years have contributed less than 12% of all places.

The top performers of those 15 players that have debuted since 2000 are

Clarke (27 Tests) - Still only 26 but averages a very unAussie like 42 in Test cricket and only 4 Tons in 41 innings
Clark (9 Tests)- Bowled very well in his 9 Tests but 32 already
Hussey (16 Tests)- Great start to a career but again 32 yrs old
Symonds (13 Tests)- 32 yrs old. Good cricketer but below the standards of a top Australian player
Katich (23 Tests)- 32 yrs old and already jettisoned

Not exactly a young, powerful group to build on.

Now I dont doubt Australias ability to stay strong but the selection of the past 8 yrs has made the near term future tougher than it ought to be.

 

[chaminda_00]

How can you say he's a better batsman than David Hussey? I don't think he is one of the top 10 FC batsman in Australia.

Hayden
Jaques
Ponting
M. Hussey
Clarke
Gilchrist
Rogers
Lehmann
D. Hussey
Katich
Hodge
Love
di Venuto
Bevan
Maher
Martyn

Tell me, who are the 9 batsman who are better than him?

His got a better average then Hussey for one. Hussey best cricket has always been in England. His only just turned in some good performances in Australia. Whereas Watson average is also inflated slightly from County Cricket. But overall his put together better performances in the Pura Cup then Hussey.

Batsmen above Watson; Hayden, Jaques, Rogers, Ponting, Clarke, Hodge, Mike Hussey, Katich.

 

[Perm]

Bevan's retired, as has Martyn. He's better than di Venuto, Love, and Maher at this current time.

Bevan and Martyn played the last domestic season, so that's why I counted them. But yeah, I thought he would be better than the last three you mentioned.