***Official*** India in England

[silentstriker]

Really, when in our history has it been anything but that way for our spinners?

 

[Turbinator]

Well Tendulkar will be leading it seems with Dravid resting.

 

[adharcric]

Really, when in our history has it been anything but that way for our spinners?

Recently? In the last ten tests, the seamers have taken 90 @ 31.9 and the spinners have taken 85 @ 29.3. Hardly "just a supporting act for Kumble". Before you come up with something about taking tail-end wickets, keep in mind that Kumble does most of that for India.

 

[Richard]

Thread title should be changed to 'India in England', imo. Thoughts?

Same thoughts.. looks confusing at the moment

Not half as confusing as you two's avatars. (Yes, deliberate irony given recent complaints about me giving 3 people identical avatars...)

I'd be in favour of it being changed back at the end of the tour, TBH. No biggie, but I like these things.

Must have a chat with you - or someone else as pennickity as me - on MSN about a certain other thread title sometime too...

 

[Richard]

Recently? In the last ten tests, the seamers have taken 90 @ 31.9 and the spinners have taken 85 @ 29.3. Hardly "just a supporting act for Kumble". Before you come up with something about taking tail-end wickets, keep in mind that Kumble does most of that for India.

10 Tests out of 405?

 

[adharcric]

10 Tests out of 405?

Yes. That's a recent "chunk" of our history that is far more relevant to the present quality of Indian seamers than anything else. Couldn't care less how pathetic our pace attacks were 3, 5, 10, 20 or 50 years ago, unless it's another all-time XI we're talking about.

 

[Richard]

Can't see that such a tiny proportion is especially relevant, TBH. Has to be bigger before I'm getting convinced Indian seamers have turned the corner.

 

[adharcric]

Don't really know what's being debated here but that's the only period that's relevant to me. Sreesanth, Munaf, the new Zaheer, VRV and co. were not around before then and we shouldn't be judging *this* pace attack based on the "laurels" of previous pace attacks.

 

[Richard]

Potential pitfalls for them (and I really don't know why VRV deserves to be in that company) are the same as for their predecessors, though, no?

 

[adharcric]

Potential pitfalls for them (and I really don't know why VRV deserves to be in that company) are the same as for their predecessors, though, no?

Sure. Until that potential turns into reality, don't really care myself. This isn't a proven attack by any means but I will only make a judgment based upon what this attack has accomplished.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't really know what's being debated here but that's the only period that's relevant to me. Sreesanth, Munaf, the new Zaheer, VRV and co. were not around before then and we shouldn't be judging *this* pace attack based on the "laurels" of previous pace attacks.

I agree, and this is something Richard does a fair bit of. What Balaji and Prasad did, for example, has no bearing on what Zaheer and Sreesanth may or may not do. The fact that they are Indian does not mean you should simply discount any potential they may have as fast bowlers. It'd be like assuming each new top order batsman England tries in their one day team - good List A record or otherwise - was going to be complete rubbish just because that has been the norm. The current attack should be judged on what the current attack can do and ultimately what it produces, not what failed duds of yesteryear produced. He posted along similar lines regarding Australian spinners a while ago IIRC - proclaiming that Bailey, Cullen et al would be rubbish purely on the basis of them being Australian, and Australia producing quality spinners so rarely, before eventually changing his tune when he realised how unfair that was.

 

[honestbharani]

Gambhir has been dropped for this game, BTW. Seems like the management have made up their minds that Jaffar has to play and/or Gambhir isn't worth a try in overseas tests yet. Strange, AFAIC.

 

[adharcric]

Mind you, Gambhir WILL play at Lord's if Jaffer fails again. That won't happen though.

 

[Perm]

Mind you, Gambhir WILL play at Lord's if Jaffer fails again. That won't happen though.

Gambhir won't play, or Jaffer won't fail?

 

[adharcric]

Gambhir won't play, or Jaffer won't fail?

Jaffer won't fail.

 

[Pup Clarke]

You sure bout that.

 

[Perm]

Jaffer won't fail.

Confidence, I like that.

 

[Raghav]

Indians to bowl first

 

[Pup Clarke]

Strauss goes for 1.

 

[Manee]

Zaheer is being attacked here but he got the vital early wicket. Sreesanth on the other hand seems to be bowling short of a length and length looking to push the batsman back and make him feel for it outside off.