I think it would be best for all concerned (expect WI obviously!) if Vaughan goes out and hits a century on the first day. Even if gets out for single figures both innings he would still be picked for the next Test if fit, we all know it. And if he only made say 64 and 37, a perfectly good Test's work, the naysayers still wouldn't back off. Prove the doubters wrong Michael!
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***Official** West Indies in England***
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
But Vaughan only averages 35.89 as captain (inferior to all the other batsmen in the squad) and bare in mid that includes an average of 74.20 against a poor Bangladesh. In fact as three of his other six centuaries were against the 2004 WI (one of them on the Antigua pancake) he only has two centuaries as captain against good teams and you have to ask with that record is he worthy of a place in the team? I reckon he needs to score runs before Flintoff comes back otherwise it could come to Strauss v Vaughan for both a place in the team and the captaincy.
Barney Rubble
International Coach
Vaughan must play in Tests, he just has to. His captaincy is so valuable.
Cue Bowman with another rant about how captaincy doesn't matter...
four_or_six
Cricketer Of The Year
I believe it's been said he swaps with Shah directly at 3. After all, we all know you want your best batsman in the no. 3 position.
Shoggz
School Boy/Girl Captain
There's an interview now up on the BBC web site where he states that.I believe it's been said he swaps with Shah directly at 3. After all, we all know you want your best batsman in the no. 3 position.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Having Strauss three and Vaughan opening is plain madness. If anyone is seriously considering that, well...I believe it's been said he swaps with Shah directly at 3. After all, we all know you want your best batsman in the no. 3 position.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Agreed. Strauss must still open and Vaughan slot in whereever best below the openers.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I've said it a good few times: Vaughan and captaincy is an overblown issue. For his first 11 Tests as captain he was opening the batting, and I've simply never rated him as a Test opener. Yes, he got a crateload of runs in between May 2002 and January 2003 as an opener, but almost every innings (bar 2) involved let-offs, and usually early ones. I said it throughout that time (and, as with the Harmison issue in early 2004, was shot down repeatedly by those willing to jump too swiftly into the "he's a World-beater" camp) that he was not a Test-class opener, and sunce the return from Australia we've seen exactly why. In his last 12 Tests as an opener he's scored more than 32 just 4 times in 19 dismissals. And the story in 2002 was actually much the same, it's just the repeated let-offs disguised the fact.
Usually, however, once he's got in he's scored big runs. Which has always suggested to me that he should be batting three or four, not opening. And since going back down the order - where he was showing quite some promise in 2001 before some wise guy decided to have him open instead of Butcher, who was just beginning to bed back into the role after Atherton's retirement - he has averaged 34.37. Nor does this tell the whole story - his form in the summer of 2004 was excellent, his form in South Africa perfectly reasonable (he got any number of excellent delivieres that series) and only in the 2005 Ashes (plus the one Test in Pakistan where he'd had negligable preparation) was I starting to worry.
So me, I'm quite happy for him to come back into the side as either a three or a four. And if the bowling's as poor as you'd expect from West Indies, I'd back him to score a fair few runs too. It's just a shame he got that blow on the finger just as he seemed to be running-up some decent form for Yorks.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
And his batting is actually not anywhere near as bad as some would have us believe, either...Vaughan must play in Tests, he just has to. His captaincy is so valuable.
Cue Bowman with another rant about how captaincy doesn't matter...
Barney Rubble
International Coach
Exactly.
simmy
International Regular
As long as Cook is left as the opener I am happy.
Looking forward to watching Prior bat again in this test match. Interesting to see if it was a one-off exceptional game (Geraint had a similiar knock against NZ early on) or if he will be England's WK for the next few years. I liked the look of him with bat and gloves and with 5 of the top 7 scoring tons this is an exciting time for English batting.
Just wish Simon Jones and Freddie got back in the side though as we need wickets
Looking forward to watching Prior bat again in this test match. Interesting to see if it was a one-off exceptional game (Geraint had a similiar knock against NZ early on) or if he will be England's WK for the next few years. I liked the look of him with bat and gloves and with 5 of the top 7 scoring tons this is an exciting time for English batting.
Just wish Simon Jones and Freddie got back in the side though as we need wickets
PhoenixFire
International Coach
I'm off to go and watch the 4th days play, anyone else going?
pasag
RTDAS
PhoenixFire
International Coach
I dunno, the weather forecast suggests that there won't be too much play on the first 3 days, which is all good afaic.
Gloucefan
U19 Vice-Captain
Don't expect to see Simon Jones any time soon. I saw him at the county ground last week and he doesn't look anything like ready and I'm not talking about his bowling. I'd be surprised if he was back for the India tests.As long as Cook is left as the opener I am happy.
Looking forward to watching Prior bat again in this test match. Interesting to see if it was a one-off exceptional game (Geraint had a similiar knock against NZ early on) or if he will be England's WK for the next few years. I liked the look of him with bat and gloves and with 5 of the top 7 scoring tons this is an exciting time for English batting.
Just wish Simon Jones and Freddie got back in the side though as we need wickets
FBU
International Debutant
I have a strong feeling Sidebottom will play tomorrow. The bowling pecking order has now come to an end. Whoever is doing fairly well in county cricket now gets a chance to bowl for England. Is there any point of an Academy? I expect we can look forward to Yorkshire/Sussex players filtering into the team.
Harmison
Hoggard
Jones
Plunkett
Anderson
Mahmood
Broad
Lewis
Tremlett
Onions
Khan
Footitt
Harmison
Hoggard
Jones
Plunkett
Anderson
Mahmood
Broad
Lewis
Tremlett
Onions
Khan
Footitt
Bob Bamber
U19 12th Man
Exactly how it wouldn't happen. If Vaughan opens , which I don't think he will , it would be with Strauss , and Cook at three , but no need to disrupte the opening partnership , hopefully Vaughan won't be there long anyway.