Matthew Hayden- I mean come on, seriously

[thierry henry]

I know it's an ongoing and pointless debate, but seriously, how can anyone not rate Hayden.

When he's in form (which he has been pretty much 90% of the time this millennium) he's almost invariably ridiculously good. Look at him now. He's scoring one day centuries at quicker than a run a ball like they're going out of fashion. I don't think anyone can outdo an in form Hayden in terms of prolonged bouts of massive runscoring.

That's about all I wanted to say really.

 

[Goughy]

Hayden is the most underrated cricketer in World Cricket.

People will always find reasons to complain but they are being fickle

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

His supposed lack of 'technique' probably turns a few people against him. Rather than the classical strokeplay of Lara and Tendulkar, Hayden appears to just bash off the front foot and square of the wicket.

Heavily, heavily underrated. Particularly in the one-day game. If he played for anyone but Australia, he'd be worshipped.

 

[C_C]

No, not underrated- heavily, heavily overrated.

Hayden doesnt face any good pacer today (save for Bond) who'd make him pay for being the front-foot bully.

Against quality opening bowling, openers *MUST* be excellent on the backfoot- not a front-foot bully like Hayden.

I mean seriously - does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that his front-foot bashfest would've ended horribly if he tried that against Wasim,Waqar, Curtly, Walsh, Donald, etc ?

He is just cashing in on namby-pamby bowling that cannot force him on the backfoot with their speed and bounce (bowled with accuracy ofcourse).

In my opinion, Hayden is the most overrated cricketer ever- i don't see him averaging more than 35 in tests and barely 30 in ODIs if he were to play in any other era- because Hayden is nothing more than a slightly taller and buffer version of Srikkanth (another exclusive front-foot bully opener). We all know how his career went when real bowlers were around.

 

[Ikki]

LOL @ C_C. Agree with the rest. Massively underrated. He's bloody toying with everyone out there.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

I mean seriously - does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that his front-foot bashfest would've ended horribly if he tried that against Wasim,Waqar, Curtly, Walsh, Donald, etc ?

So Hayden averages 53 in tests because of a derth of bowling talent?

 

[adharcric]

So Hayden averages 53 in tests because of a derth of bowling talent?

Actually, yes. Pretty much everyone would agree that his stats are somewhat inflated, no? The degree of inflation is the subject of debate.

 

[C_C]

So Hayden averages 53 in tests because of a derth of bowling talent?

Yes.
Dearth of quality opening bowlers.

Last time Hayden actually tried his front-foot nonsense against quality opening bowlers like Curtly, he got dumped for years.
And thats what would happen if Hayden tried that against any top quality opening bowler unless the surfaces are pancake flat like these days.
I've seen Srikkanth and I've seen Hayden. Make Srikkanth lift some weights and half a foot taller and you get Hayden.
Ie, sorry excuses for opening batsmen.

I rate Langer far higher than i rate Hayden as a batsman. Hayden would've either died on the pitch or scored in single digits nine times out of 10 if he tried this front-foot nonsense against Donald/Ambrose/Wasim/waqar/Walsh/Pollock in their prime.

Pretty evident why he was brought back - he can murder medium-pacers because of his super-strong front-foot play. When the Aussie selectors saw the quality of fast bowling decline, they pretty much were sure that the conditions were just right for this type of 'batsman'.

 

[Richard]

I don't think anyone's said he wasn't capable of the 3 consecutive astonishing innings we've seen from him in his last 3 ODIs. It's certainly surprised me that anyone would manage to pull-off such a feat, however.

Such things don't, obviously, change the fact that he was never that good at ODIs for much of his career - he's made several massive scores and had about 3 shortish bouts of impossibly big scoring. He's also, of course, cashed-in big-time on the substandard sides. Otherwise, in his other however-many-it-is games, he's not been anything remotely special.

As to Tests, I've said it a million times - Hayden is not a capable player of seam and swing, specifically back into the left-hander. Anyone prepared to take him seriously as a genuine modern great, because of his ability to relentlessly pound average bowling to a better extent than most, overrates him as far as I'm concerned. I've always said had he been born 5 years earlier (and hence been too old by the time the bowling standards dropped to the paucity levels they dropped to in 2001\02 to have any recall in that period) he'd almost certainly have no Test career to speak of - probably between 10 and 20 games averaging between 20 and 30. About the same as a Graeme Wood or Andrew Hilditch.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I must admit that, much like the case of Paul Collingwood, this is one instance in which I've been proven conclusively wrong on all counts. I thought Hayden was worthy of the Flat Track Bully status some had placed upon him, but clearly he's not.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I must admit that, much like the case of Paul Collingwood, this is one instance in which I've been proven conclusively wrong on all counts. I thought Hayden was worthy of the Flat Track Bully status some had placed upon him, but clearly he's not.

Hayden is primaraly a flat track bully IMO much like Sehwag.In the Oval test in 2005 he played a much patient and dogged innings which belies his natural game.Good player in the modern era but IMO would have been pretty average 10 years against bowlers like Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Walsh,Ambrose etc.Sehwag has a much worse technique mind.

 

[C_C]

Sehwag has a much worse technique mind.

For an opener, no.
Hayden moves his feet decently on the front foot- better than Sehwag. But Sehwag's backfoot play is much stronger than Hayden's. If you are an opener against top notch bowling, your backfoot play *must* be impeccable and whoever has the better backfoot play will eventually win out - this is the category where Hayden is almost dead-set last amongst anyone who's averaging over 40 today.

 

[Richard]

I must admit that, much like the case of Paul Collingwood, this is one instance in which I've been proven conclusively wrong on all counts. I thought Hayden was worthy of the Flat Track Bully status some had placed upon him, but clearly he's not.

Why and when did you change your mind?

 

[Pup Clarke]

I don't get how Sehwag's back foot technique is any better than Hayden's.For a start Sehwag doesn't even bother to move his feet,forward or back.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Why and when did you change your mind?

I imagine it would be his last 3 innings but it hasn't really changed my view of him TBH.

 

[Richard]

I'm seriously hoping not!

 

[Pup Clarke]

What exactly have we learnt from Hayden's last 3 innings?.That he can swing through the line against mediocre bowlers on the flattest of pitches.The guy is a good player but the praise he is getting is a bit overboard TBH.

 

[C_C]

I don't get how Sehwag's back foot technique is any better than Hayden's.For a start Sehwag doesn't even bother to move his feet,forward or back.

Feet movement = not the major thing to backfoot play. You just have to get your body in line (Sehwag does this by reaching over and i dont think anyone can dispute that Sehwag's hand-eye coordination is far superior to Hayden's), pick the ball early ( advantage Sehwag) and shift your weight on the backfoot early (advantage Sehwag again).

Hayden literally never goes back unless the ball is pitched short and is waist high. He just tries to club it on the front-foot so that he doesnt have to deal with swing.
Against Ambrose, thats a recipe for death.
Ofcourse, Sehwag would be dead too- he cant take the ball to the rib cage that well and thats what the windian great bowlers specialized in.
But against quality bowling, i'd give Sehwag the opener more probability of success than Hayden the opener- primarily because of Sehwag's superior hand-eye coordination and stronger backfoot play.

 

[Richard]

What exactly have we learnt from Hayden's last 3 innings?.That he can swing through the line against mediocre bowlers on the flattest of pitches.The guy is a good player but the praise he is getting is a bit overboard TBH.

That's precisely why I said I hope not! The last 3 innings, good as they have been, haven't taught us anything we don't know about Hayden.

 

[Pup Clarke]

.
.
But against quality bowling, i'd give Sehwag the opener more probability of success than Hayden the opener- primarily because of Sehwag's superior hand-eye coordination and stronger backfoot play.

Having good hand eye coordination is all well and good but if your back leg isn't in line with the ball and your head isn't in line like Sehwag the most likely result is going to be dismissed especially on a seaming pitch.