Richards and Marshall or Ponting and McGrath?

[Richard]

hmmm 10 out of 10 sounds a bit of an exaggeration to me. The Windies in their prime still lost tests and they didn't play any teams that were as good as the current Australians.

Well, yes, they lost 4 games out of 70 in 10 years, true. But I'd not say that's that many, personally. And 1 of those was a dead game at The SCG (Bob Holland's match), anyway, so that's 3. And 1 of those was that 1-wicket defeat in New Zealand where the Umpiring is pretty well universally accepted to have been awful with most errors favouring the home side, so you could pretty fairly say it's 2.

Just twice after the 403-chase loss until the Pakistan tour in 1986\87 where their decline started did West Indies get genuinely beaten at their own game - by Pakistan (at surprise surprise, not Jamaica or Barbados but the slow pitch at Port-Of-Spain) and by Lillee, Alderman and (of all people) Yardley in THAT match in 1981\82.

And 2 genuine losses in 10 years seems pretty awesome to me.

 

[The_Bunny]

Richards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ponting
Marshall = Mcgrath.

Richards may be better than Ponting but there is no way he is that much better.....

 

[Swervy]

.... Lillee, Alderman and (of all people) Yardley in THAT match in 1981\82.

And 2 genuine losses in 10 years seems pretty awesome to me.

dont underestimate how effective Bruce Yardley was for a few years

 

[Richard]

Didn't Australia lose tests at their prime to teams that were not half as good as them ?

Not really. Since the Caribbean tour in 1991 (the last time they were genuinely beaten by a better side outside the subcontinent until 2005) Australia have lost 32 Tests: 7 of those have been series-costing defeats in the subcontinent; another 13 of those have been dead-rubber Tests. So that's 12 defeats in live Tests outside the subcontinent in 16 years.

The only time Australia have ever been genuinely beaten in the last 16 years has been in the subcontinent - the one exception to that being The Ashes 2005. That, too, is a pretty awesome record.

 

[Richard]

dont underestimate how effective Bruce Yardley was for a few years

A year, that's it. 1981\82. At the age of 34.

Never been 100% sure why he got picked so late in his career, but his was nothing but a glorious twilight year in 81\82, though he played a small part in the Ashes success the following year.

Don't overestimate him either. He was no Ashley Mallett.

 

[Richard]

Yes but not all tests were played on hard bouncy decks like Perth, Bridgetown or Sabina Park. Those pitches, the WI were simply terror. They would much through batsmen like Hayden, Martyn, Gillchrist etc. on a truly bouncy pitch. I don't think you remember how truely uncomfortable just Ambrose made Steve Waugh on Perth-type pitches and Steve Waugh was better at dealing with the short stuff than most of them.
Four of Ambroses would be murder really.

Hayden yes, Martyn and Gilchrist less sure. Their weaknesses have always been the sideways-moving ball, not the high-bouncing one. They are WAns, after all.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Warne would be obviously the best bowler on a spinner and McGrath would be able to cope well as well but the rest of the Aussie pacers are pretty poor when deprived of pacy/bouncy/seaming surfaces.

Depended whom you picked for the third pacer, IMO. But Kasprowicz has been a pretty good bowler in unfriendly conditions over the years. Statistics may not be all that great (wouldn't know, TBH) but he's put in some pretty good performance and acts as a good foil. Whether a "foil" is good enough against this sort of team is another question, I guess.

 

[Slifer]

What about Marshall and Mcgrath bowling in tandem to Viv and Ponting??

 

[silentstriker]

What about Marshall and Mcgrath bowling in tandem to Viv and Ponting??

My money is on the bowlers.

 

[adharcric]

Depended whom you picked for the third pacer, IMO. But Kasprowicz has been a pretty good bowler in unfriendly conditions over the years. Statistics may not be all that great (wouldn't know, TBH) but he's put in some pretty good performance and acts as a good foil. Whether a "foil" is good enough against this sort of team is another question, I guess.

Kasprowicz really doesn't compare to Holding, Ambrose, Garner and co. though. Not at all.

 

[Richard]

Not sure about that. Kasprowicz at his very best was about as good at exploiting unfavourable conditions as they come. Sure, Holding, Garner etc. did it far more often, but if you picked Kasprowicz at the right time I'd back him to help knock over even Fredericks and co.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Richards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ponting
Marshall = Mcgrath.

Disagree. At the very least Ponting is on equal footing with Richards.
I detest Ponting, but the man can bat. I also think people get a bit carried away with their ratings of Viv Richards. Great batsman, but there have been better.

 

[Ikki]

Well, with the two pairs of players in question I'd call it a tie overall...maybe a tad to the Aussie side.

Comparing the two great sides, I pick the Aussie side. Really, can't argue it too much considering both teams will go down as the best in history, but I just feel that the Aussie side at their best Vs. the West Indian team at their best, the Aussies would get the best of them.

 

[Richard]

It is very debatable whether either of those 2 sides are the best in history.

 

[Richard]

I also think people get a bit carried away with their ratings of Viv Richards. Great batsman, but there have been better.

Yeah, me too. Sobers and Lara, and that's just for starters, were better for mine.

 

[C_C]

Hayden yes, Martyn and Gilchrist less sure. Their weaknesses have always been the sideways-moving ball, not the high-bouncing one. They are WAns, after all.

Have you ever seen Martyn, Langer, etc. vs Ambrose on Perth-type wickets ?
Look- the WI pacers were masters at pitching the ball at good length and still getting it to jump high as your chest. That type of bowling this current Aussie team's never faced for long..and if it were from 4 pacers of Marshall-Garner-Holding-Roberts callibre, they'd not stand a chance.

 

[Richard]

Have you ever seen Martyn, Langer, etc. vs Ambrose on Perth-type wickets ?

Yes. They've both played on them pretty much since they picked-up a bat.

 

[C_C]

Yes. They've both played on them pretty much since they picked-up a bat.

vs bowlers of Ambrose's callibre who get the ball to jump to their throats from good length ? i dont think so.

 

[Richard]

How'd you know? You've watched so much Australian domestic cricket?

The WACA bears no resemblence to any other pitch in The World. For most of the 1970s, 80s and 90s near enough any bowler who bowled with any height at all could get the ball tou bounce steeply from all but the fullest length. To suggest a Western Australian would be likely to have trouble with the bouncing ball is ridiculous.

 

[Slifer]

i dont think thats what CC is sugeesting but if history is anything to go by (australia have a terrible record at perth against the WI) then the 1980s WI bowlers would have a field day with the best Aussie batting lin up of recent vintage.