Sunil blasts the Australians

[honestbharani]

Haha - keep working your way through the thread

lol, got time only today. had a busy saturday.

 

[honestbharani]

So what r u disputing?

The South Africans sledge as much, if not more, than any other side and many of their series are characterized by ill-feelings between the teams. When playing Oz, it is also characterized by whinging and whining because SA happens to get flogged in virtually every series between the 2 countries.

Pakistan, collectively, have the worst disciplinary record in international cricket whilst their captain holds the individual "honours."

In response to someone's suggestion that Sreesanth is merely "in your face":

McGrath is in your face

Nel is OTT in your face

In SA, Sreesanth combined Nel's OTT with mocking of others when he had success, threatening behaviour when he was frustrated and time-wasting antics to rival an Argie soccer player. In short, he carried on like an absolute jackass.

As for Holding's claims, he explained it away by saying that Richards, etc took sledging as a personal insult to their manhood and returned fire via racial slurs.

And, BTW, the last team I've seen to be warned for excessive sledging was the West Indies at Adelaide in 2005/6

It's very easy to take a shot at Australia, as Gavaskar has done, because the country has had that reputation for over 30 years. However, at present, there are a no. of sides/individuals who are worse offenders.

yep, and who do you think they are generally inspired by? And either way, even if the others are just as bad (and they are, I am not disputing that), the champions will always get noticed that bit more. Its how it is. If India become champions over the next 5 years and behave this way, I will say the same about them. Champions have to set the standards.

 

[honestbharani]

The fact is that a team's behaviour is only as good as the worst behaviour of the individual team members.

For example, Gavaskar would contend that Australia's behaviour is appalling despite the fact that any no. of players have never taken a step out of line, e.g. Michael Hussey

Sreesanth's behaviour reflected poorly on himself and those around him and in spite the fact that no-one could ever say that guys like Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble etc arent thorough genltemen on the field

As for his apologies, dont make me laugh

did u laugh when Slater apologized or do u still believe that cooked up "I m under stress" pile of garbage?

 

[honestbharani]

So what do you define insults/abuse?

Unless they are saying something hurtful or sensitive (say a family member had just died or were terribly sick), somthing racist, or anything over the line, then it isn't and I doubt they would swoop that low. I don't suppose you wouldn't hold Darren Lehmann that high as well then?

Otherwise, if saying something sarcastic, like 'great shot' after a play-and-miss or 'your own form today' whilst he is stuggling for a run, then that is sledging and that happens in all forms of the game, and I would find it hard believe nothing got said when you these angels like Viv Richards were out there.

Oh yeah, FYI Malcolm Marshall said to David Boon on his Test debut that if he didn't do the right thing, he would be forced to come around the wicket and kill him.

So there you go.

yeah, u dont really apprecaite euphemisms, do you?

 

[honestbharani]

When has McGrath racially abused anyone?

As for Sreesanth, sledging is one thing (even though it becomes tedious when it happens a few times every over) but doing a jig repeatedly in front of a bowlers face because you happen to hit a few runs or intentionally running into people as some misguided form of intimidation (the guys knee-high to a grass-hopper ffs) or rolling around on the ground for minutes as though you've been shot because your hoping the umpires will call the light during the delay you've caused was just pathetic.

didn't u watch McGrath's efforts at time wasting in Laxman's test? THAT was pathetic.

 

[honestbharani]

Mate, the answer to your questions in this post is - every team has done it at some stage or another and most still do. Look at the question of appealing for one - how many times have we watched teams operating on days 4 and 5 in the subcontinent with 4 men around the bat and there are four or more appeals an over, even as the ball speeds through wide mid-on to the fence?

Plenty of captains have said demeaning things about umpires, Hansie Cronje speared a stump into the umpires' room at Adelaide Oval when he walked off because he was unhappy with a decision. A certain Pakistan captain recently refused to bring his side back onto the field because of what two umpires did. Gavaskar himself, who now seeks to be portrayed as some paragon of virtue, tried to take Chauhan off the field with him when he was given out in 81. the act of a three-and-a-half year old child whose lollipop spilt on the ground and got all dirty.

Not sure about the hitwicket reference you're referring to, but how many captains take an obvious half volley which came off the batter's abdomen and went to 1st slip in a world cup final and apepal vigorously as if it's obviously out (that would be Ganguly in 2003, wouldn't it, from Gilchrist off Harbarjan's bowling?); how many teams have players who deliberately scuff up the pitch during a drinks break and then get suspended for what is balatantly cheating (that would be Afridi v England in Pakistan last time wouldn't it?) How many teams have captains who are caught tampering with the ball? That would be England with Mike Atherton wouldn't it?

Plenty of teams indulge in personal sledging on the cricket field. Lara sledged Mark Waugh on the WI tour to Australia in 1992-93 because Waugh backed away and played upper cuts in a one day game - he called him gutless; McDermott was called a "white c..." according to his book; Harbarjan never shuts up; neither does Paul Nixon the England 'keeper; Collingwood started the banter with Warne in Sydney, but Warne ended it; Tony Greig was a massive sledger as footage of any game where he took a wicket would demonstrate; Dwayne Bravo sledged Flintoff on WI last tour of England (with hilarious results); the Saffers are as renowned for it as the Aussies; Parore and Ian Smith were both great at it for NZ. Not sure about Pakistan because they speak Urdu all the time on the field, but when they do speak it, they seem to be looking at the batsmen a lot as they make their comments with less than friendly looks on their faces. Draw your own conclusions.

But yeah, as these examples obviously show, the Aussies are evil and have an appalling record of cheating and ill-discipline compared with every other side in the world. They are the only side which behave like spoiled brats, the only side which take losing poorly - I mean look at their disgraceful behaviour when they lost in India in 2001 or the Ashes in 2005 - oh that's right, they congratulated their opponents both times and in the latter case had the temerity to spend most of the series having a beer with them and having the whole world say what a great spirit the series was played in. In the former case, their captain in the great spirit of Aussie spoilt-brattedness spent his own money after the series building an orphanage for young female lepers in India.

Yep, no doubt the Aussies really are the biggest problem facing world cricket at the moment. Never mind match fixing, never mind drug taking, never mind the ICC is an organisational joke, never mind the tragedy of Zimbabwe and the under-resourcing of Bangladesh and Kenya by a world body rolling in money - some bloke has a verbal chop at another fella on the field and the world will cave in. It really is appalling. That's why so many of this Aussie team are always up on disciplinary charges, always being suspended, always surrounded in scandal on the field. Not.

We'll just keep hearing all the old examples - Ponting makes one inappropriate comment to an umpire in Malaysia therefore he's a prat and it's a disgrace and he's unfit to be a captain; McGrath's comment to Sarwan - we've only had that dredged up 14 million times as an example; what next - Lehmann's indefensible rant vs Sri Lanka about 5 years ago- will that be brought up again as an example of how these Aussies "cross the line" so often?

One last thiing - which captain was it who went to every other country's captain and asked them to accept a fielder's word on catches carrying? That would have been Ponting, wouldn't it? What a disgraceful, ill-tempered, unsportsmanlike gesture that was.

By the way, every other captain said no.

Let's have some perspective please.

As I ve said earlier, other teams do it, but Aussies were doing it earlier than most from what I remember. Plus, as champions, they are the ones to set the examples, no matter how bad the others are.

 

[Craig]

didn't u watch McGrath's efforts at time wasting in Laxman's test? THAT was pathetic.

That sort of thing never stopped Moin Khan and the rest of the Pakistani team in 2000 against England in Karachi.

u really want me to list out how many times Aussies would have said "I ll kill you" and stuff to that effect and has been documented?

Gon then. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[honestbharani]

Mate, the answer to your questions in this post is - every team has done it at some stage or another and most still do. Look at the question of appealing for one - how many times have we watched teams operating on days 4 and 5 in the subcontinent with 4 men around the bat and there are four or more appeals an over, even as the ball speeds through wide mid-on to the fence?

Plenty of captains have said demeaning things about umpires, Hansie Cronje speared a stump into the umpires' room at Adelaide Oval when he walked off because he was unhappy with a decision. A certain Pakistan captain recently refused to bring his side back onto the field because of what two umpires did. Gavaskar himself, who now seeks to be portrayed as some paragon of virtue, tried to take Chauhan off the field with him when he was given out in 81. the act of a three-and-a-half year old child whose lollipop spilt on the ground and got all dirty.

Not sure about the hitwicket reference you're referring to, but how many captains take an obvious half volley which came off the batter's abdomen and went to 1st slip in a world cup final and apepal vigorously as if it's obviously out (that would be Ganguly in 2003, wouldn't it, from Gilchrist off Harbarjan's bowling?); how many teams have players who deliberately scuff up the pitch during a drinks break and then get suspended for what is balatantly cheating (that would be Afridi v England in Pakistan last time wouldn't it?) How many teams have captains who are caught tampering with the ball? That would be England with Mike Atherton wouldn't it?

Plenty of teams indulge in personal sledging on the cricket field. Lara sledged Mark Waugh on the WI tour to Australia in 1992-93 because Waugh backed away and played upper cuts in a one day game - he called him gutless; McDermott was called a "white c..." according to his book; Harbarjan never shuts up; neither does Paul Nixon the England 'keeper; Collingwood started the banter with Warne in Sydney, but Warne ended it; Tony Greig was a massive sledger as footage of any game where he took a wicket would demonstrate; Dwayne Bravo sledged Flintoff on WI last tour of England (with hilarious results); the Saffers are as renowned for it as the Aussies; Parore and Ian Smith were both great at it for NZ. Not sure about Pakistan because they speak Urdu all the time on the field, but when they do speak it, they seem to be looking at the batsmen a lot as they make their comments with less than friendly looks on their faces. Draw your own conclusions.

But yeah, as these examples obviously show, the Aussies are evil and have an appalling record of cheating and ill-discipline compared with every other side in the world. They are the only side which behave like spoiled brats, the only side which take losing poorly - I mean look at their disgraceful behaviour when they lost in India in 2001 or the Ashes in 2005 - oh that's right, they congratulated their opponents both times and in the latter case had the temerity to spend most of the series having a beer with them and having the whole world say what a great spirit the series was played in. In the former case, their captain in the great spirit of Aussie spoilt-brattedness spent his own money after the series building an orphanage for young female lepers in India.

Yep, no doubt the Aussies really are the biggest problem facing world cricket at the moment. Never mind match fixing, never mind drug taking, never mind the ICC is an organisational joke, never mind the tragedy of Zimbabwe and the under-resourcing of Bangladesh and Kenya by a world body rolling in money - some bloke has a verbal chop at another fella on the field and the world will cave in. It really is appalling. That's why so many of this Aussie team are always up on disciplinary charges, always being suspended, always surrounded in scandal on the field. Not.

We'll just keep hearing all the old examples - Ponting makes one inappropriate comment to an umpire in Malaysia therefore he's a prat and it's a disgrace and he's unfit to be a captain; McGrath's comment to Sarwan - we've only had that dredged up 14 million times as an example; what next - Lehmann's indefensible rant vs Sri Lanka about 5 years ago- will that be brought up again as an example of how these Aussies "cross the line" so often?

One last thiing - which captain was it who went to every other country's captain and asked them to accept a fielder's word on catches carrying? That would have been Ponting, wouldn't it? What a disgraceful, ill-tempered, unsportsmanlike gesture that was.

By the way, every other captain said no.

Let's have some perspective please.

As I ve said earlier, other teams do it, but Aussies were doing it earlier than most from what I remember. Plus, as champions, they are the ones to set the examples, no matter how bad the others are.


Plus, when did I ever say that Aussies were the biggest problem in cricket? They are, in the sense that they keep winning and it is not doing the game any great good ( ) but that aside, I never said that their behaviour was a big problem. But I do think that the Windies of the 70s and 80s would be remembered a bit more fondly than the current Aussie side. They have always been an aggressive bunch who have taken it one step too far on a no. of occassions earlier too but it has just gotten to another level AND it has also started to come into notice far more now, because they are the undisputed champs of the game for over a decade.


And believe it or not, people will like to find faults with champions. Everyone does that. Are you blokes honestly telling me that Aussies (current or former) wont make such critiques about another team which becomes #1 and stays there for the next decade, lets say. It is part and parcel of being #1 and it always happens. Doesn't mean every point of the criticism is false, though.



And yeah, they did behave like spoilt brats in India in 2001. Check out McGrath and Warne and Gillespie and all the stuff that was said (and thrown) at Laxman and Dravid on the 4th day. They have generally been nice guys off the field, surprise, surprise, its not like we didn't know that before. And of all those instances, everyone of them has happened post 2000 and a no. of stuff that I said happened before that.


And do me a favour and try to list out all your instances by team and then compare that with my list about Australia. What you have basically done is given me a "rest of the world" list. I said that they were worse behaved than most teams. Get it?


And again, you really want me to list out how many times Aussies have questioned another batsman's guts (Reg. the stuff about Lara). What next? You gonna tell me about Parthiv's pathetic attempt at sledging Steve Waugh?


And BTW, how many times have captains refused a drink to a batsman (not even to drink, to just wash his hands and head, a Hindu custom if you have accidentally the death of an animal)? And remember this happened in 1980s? But of course, you will have an amazing counter to it with something that happened in 2003, wont you?


And of course, Steve Waugh helping out an orphanage in Calcutta means he was an angel on the field, doesn't it? You even have any idea why I keep repeating the fact that most of the Aussies are amazing guys off the field. And the Aussie fans are one of the best bunches you can talk to in a cricket ground. I have had the experience four times and it was always fun. Those guys are extremely nice and sporting and always take banter as well as anyone. But obviously, all that means that Aussies are the best behaved side in world cricket of all time, right?


And it is not like other cricketers from other countries dont do nice things. But that has no relevance here, so I will stop, even though you didn't.


And Ponting's suggestion would have worked if only any other Aussie batsman had shown any kind of trust on a fielder's word, before. Lara accepted Mark Waugh's word and walked off in 2000 and in the same match, Langer refused to accept Lara's word and stayed on. But don't let facts get in your way or anything. Continue the rant.


P.S: I do think Punter's suggestion is absurd. Jayawardene claimed a bump ball catch off Punter himself. I am sure he has said second thoughts about that idea of his since then.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

ffs. This thread is a joke. It's just one extreme arguing against the other.

 

[Jono]

ffs. This thread is a joke. It's just one extreme arguing against the other.

Agreed.

Don't think the Australians (cricket team and other sporting teams) are anywhere near as bad as what has been mentioned here (must admit CC, I think your anti-Australian posts are getting very tiresome now), but at the same time surely its understandable to see why many people would not like how some of the Australian cricket team behaves (Brett Lee, McGrath vs. WI, Ponting DLF Cup, Ponting Ashes 2005 etc.)

 

[adharcric]

That said, I've had enough of solid posts on Saturday night. I just changed my mind 4 times regarding the winner of the Afridi thanks to this thread ...

 

[Burgey]

There are cultural differences at work, here. As I said, perhaps to be called a "son of a bitch" will be taken differently by an Aussie and by an Indian. Personally, if someone called me a SoB, I wouldn't really hesitate to try and take the guy's head off. There are lines that shouldn't be crossed in each culture and since cricket is a multi-cultural sport, they have tried to come up with a min. line that shouldn't be crossed and the Aussies cross it way too often and them being the best side in the world, it has just caught on. Everyone thinks it is cool to sledge and stuff. In my school team, the opening bowler thinks it is fun to show the finger everytime he dismisses a batsman. He thinks it will be his "thing" and his idols are Donald and McGrath. Easy to see why this is an issue, tbh.


Why do you think Sreesanth behaves like a tool when he is bowling? Who do you think he got it from? Holding? Marshall? or the local heroes, Kapil? Srinath? McGrath? Donald? I believe the answer is obvious.

I accept the cultural difference point as a valid one - what may be a fairly innocuous comment in one culture can be a dire insult in another, and that should be borne in mind. But it's hypocritical to expect the Aussies to take that into account and yet not take into account the very personal issues which were facing McGrath at the time of his Sarwan blow up and Slater at the time of his Dravid blow up. Either nothing is taken into account and ther is a blanket standard, or everything is examined in its own context.

Really, when you talk about whom Sreesanth might be copying with his antics - you're farily obviously implying McGrath - McGrath's run-in with Sarwan was a piece of shocking behaviour. For one moment set it aside - we are, after all, so forgiving to players from everywhere else for their indiscretions - what else has McGrath ever done on a field that is in anyway materially different to what many other bowlers do/ have done? About the worst thing he's done is say something to a batsman - for most of the time he mutters away to himself and demonstrates that he's got the sh*ts because he's angry that in his 16th over of the day he's bowled his first ball on leg stump. Big deal. How many times did Donald chunter away at himself, throw his head back and have a word with a batsman? Don't think bowlers from every country do/ did that? What about Ambrose in his confrontation with Steve Waugh? Don't tell me Javagal Srinath didn't have a word to some of the Aussie batsmen in 2001? Or Harbajan didn't? Or Zaheer Khan didn't in the World Cup final in '03, only to see his first over go for 15? They all do it, unfortunately and to say that Australia "cross the line" more than any other side is diametrically opposite to the evidence in the form of citings and disclipinary action by match referees against players from that country compared with any other.

 

[FRAZ]

Ok ! I am being a little different now and I have some questions !!!
1. Can some one list the incidents in which Sub-continental cricketers were involved in racial and sarcastic (eventually race based) sledging ? (And please don't mention the incidents in which some sub-continental players answered some harsh sentences of the opponents cuz for me retaliation in such incidents is not even a crime)
2. Has there ever been any problem with the Australians or South African players in the field or no ?
3. If there have been problems then why people are just blatantly denying the facts by using the bleach creaming posts that there IS , WAS , or WILL never be be any problem ?
4.For me the problems were there and the problems are finishing slowly but surely and it's a great thing but why in the name of hell people just deny the fact from the beginning and the base of all their long posts is based on a mental ideology that "There has never been any problem and these people just rant" ?
5. Prove the old saying wrong "If the smoke is visible then a fire should be there too " ?
6. What in the name of hell Sreesanth has done wrong by waving the bat in joy ? Why people are showing the visual nausea about that act ?
Please help me out !!!!

 

[Burgey]

As I ve said earlier, other teams do it, but Aussies were doing it earlier than most from what I remember. Plus, as champions, they are the ones to set the examples, no matter how bad the others are.


Plus, when did I ever say that Aussies were the biggest problem in cricket? They are, in the sense that they keep winning and it is not doing the game any great good ( ) but that aside, I never said that their behaviour was a big problem. But I do think that the Windies of the 70s and 80s would be remembered a bit more fondly than the current Aussie side. They have always been an aggressive bunch who have taken it one step too far on a no. of occassions earlier too but it has just gotten to another level AND it has also started to come into notice far more now, because they are the undisputed champs of the game for over a decade.


And believe it or not, people will like to find faults with champions. Everyone does that. Are you blokes honestly telling me that Aussies (current or former) wont make such critiques about another team which becomes #1 and stays there for the next decade, lets say. It is part and parcel of being #1 and it always happens. Doesn't mean every point of the criticism is false, though.



And yeah, they did behave like spoilt brats in India in 2001. Check out McGrath and Warne and Gillespie and all the stuff that was said (and thrown) at Laxman and Dravid on the 4th day. They have generally been nice guys off the field, surprise, surprise, its not like we didn't know that before. And of all those instances, everyone of them has happened post 2000 and a no. of stuff that I said happened before that.


And do me a favour and try to list out all your instances by team and then compare that with my list about Australia. What you have basically done is given me a "rest of the world" list. I said that they were worse behaved than most teams. Get it?


And again, you really want me to list out how many times Aussies have questioned another batsman's guts (Reg. the stuff about Lara). What next? You gonna tell me about Parthiv's pathetic attempt at sledging Steve Waugh?


And BTW, how many times have captains refused a drink to a batsman (not even to drink, to just wash his hands and head, a Hindu custom if you have accidentally the death of an animal)? And remember this happened in 1980s? But of course, you will have an amazing counter to it with something that happened in 2003, wont you?


And of course, Steve Waugh helping out an orphanage in Calcutta means he was an angel on the field, doesn't it? You even have any idea why I keep repeating the fact that most of the Aussies are amazing guys off the field. And the Aussie fans are one of the best bunches you can talk to in a cricket ground. I have had the experience four times and it was always fun. Those guys are extremely nice and sporting and always take banter as well as anyone. But obviously, all that means that Aussies are the best behaved side in world cricket of all time, right?


And it is not like other cricketers from other countries dont do nice things. But that has no relevance here, so I will stop, even though you didn't.


And Ponting's suggestion would have worked if only any other Aussie batsman had shown any kind of trust on a fielder's word, before. Lara accepted Mark Waugh's word and walked off in 2000 and in the same match, Langer refused to accept Lara's word and stayed on. But don't let facts get in your way or anything. Continue the rant.


P.S: I do think Punter's suggestion is absurd. Jayawardene claimed a bump ball catch off Punter himself. I am sure he has said second thoughts about that idea of his since then.

The rant continues but I'll keep this one short.

If you think Australia are the worst behaved side in world cricket, you have missed the antics of Pakistan in the last 12 months alone. You have missed the behaviour in the home South African series vs India and Pakistan a couple of months ago.

People look to criticise the champion sides - it happens here a lot as well - people saying that they want a contest and stuff like that. Fair cop, but why are the standards expected of Australia higher than the standards accepted of others? It's not me saying they are the BEST behaved side, it's your asserting they are the worst, when their disciplinary record compared with the others suggest that this is not the case. So yeah, Steve Waugh wasn't an angel on the field, but that isn't the point - he retired one of the most respected cricketers in the world, by people all around the world - hardlty suggestive of a bloke who you like to insinuate was flouting the standards and laws of the game on an almost daily basis.

On that issue of not giving a drink to the opposition. This falls, I believe within this cultural issue we actually agree on. I fear you may be imbuing the then Australian captain with a greater knowledge of his opponent's culture and faith than that which he had. If, however, it was well known that the Indian player was asking for water for the reason you have stated, I agree, it's a piece of very poor sportsmanship.

If you want me to go side by side, I will do so, but I will take a bit of time to get back to you because - much of what goes on and everyone gets their knickers in a knot about (drum roll)......

ain't that big a deal

- and I actually don't keep a (mostly selective) list of it like so many other people do (I do not inlcude you in that btw). So I will need to do some research Let me know if you reckon it will advance the debate.

Ponting may well have had a re-think on his idea re. the honesty thing, but I was using it to demonstrate the point that the Aussies aren't that bad compared with other sides.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree i guess.

 

[Matt79]

Ok ! I am being a little different now and I have some questions !!!
1. Can some one list the incidents in which Sub-continental cricketers were involved in racial and sarcastic (eventually race based) sledging ? (And please don't mention the incidents in which some sub-continental players answered some harsh sentences of the opponents cuz for me retaliation in such incidents is not even a crime)
2. Has there ever been any problem with the Australians or South African players in the field or no ?
3. If there have been problems then why people are just blatantly denying the facts by using the bleach creaming posts that there IS , WAS , or WILL never be be any problem ?
4.For me the problems were there and the problems are finishing slowly but surely and it's a great thing but why in the name of hell people just deny the fact from the beginning and the base of all their long posts is based on a mental ideology that "There has never been any problem and these people just rant" ?
5. Prove the old saying wrong "If the smoke is visible then a fire should be there too " ?
6. What in the name of hell Sreesanth has done wrong by waving the bat in joy ? Why people are showing the visual nausea about that act ?
Please help me out !!!!

Not that hard to see where you're going with these questions, but what the hey.

1. There have been incidents. Gilchrist was called a white c... by the Pakistan wicketkeeper during the 2003 WC. There are others. Some of which are probably missed by the targets of that abuse because its said in Urdu or Hindi. Doesn't mean sub-continental cricketers are all racists, but you can't pretend that it doesn't happen.
2. Obviously there has. That's evident in every post in this thread actually. The simple fact that incidents have occurred doesn't, of itself, prove anything about this issue at hand.
3. I don't think a single poster who has posted defending Australia who has denied issues have occurred. Nobody is attempting to white-wash anything. We've mainly been saying that we think some people, like Gavaskar, might be unfairly exaggerating.
4. See my answer to question 3. I think almost everyone on this site does want to see racism in sport eliminated.
5. So if people make stupid allegations about you, they must be true to some extent?? Given that you've copped a lot of often unfair abuse and criticism in this forum at times, that seems an strange thing for you to be saying.
6. I'm personally not familiar with the incident, but I believe the problem was that he was more waving his bat AT someone, rather than simply waving it in the air. Shades of Shahid Afridi's head explosion actually. Although generally Aussie fans don't use either the Sresanth or Afridi bat incidents to argue that Indian and Pakistani players are all lunatics...

Is that the help you were after?

 

[Burgey]

Ok ! I am being a little different now and I have some questions !!!
1. Can some one list the incidents in which Sub-continental cricketers were involved in racial and sarcastic (eventually race based) sledging ? (And please don't mention the incidents in which some sub-continental players answered some harsh sentences of the opponents cuz for me retaliation in such incidents is not even a crime)
2. Has there ever been any problem with the Australians or South African players in the field or no ?
3. If there have been problems then why people are just blatantly denying the facts by using the bleach creaming posts that there IS , WAS , or WILL never be be any problem ?
4.For me the problems were there and the problems are finishing slowly but surely and it's a great thing but why in the name of hell people just deny the fact from the beginning and the base of all their long posts is based on a mental ideology that "There has never been any problem and these people just rant" ?
5. Prove the old saying wrong "If the smoke is visible then a fire should be there too " ?
6. What in the name of hell Sreesanth has done wrong by waving the bat in joy ? Why people are showing the visual nausea about that act ?
Please help me out !!!!

1. In suggesting that certain umpires are racist, or when decisions go against them, alleging racism in others.

2. Yes, as there has been with others, whom people do not see fit to comment upon.

3. No one is saying there never was, is or will be a problem - they are putting their view point in response to the assertion that Australia are the worst behaved side in world cricket.

4. See (3) above. I can't help it. Sometimes I just rant in response to generalisations like the ones characterising the assertion that Australia are the worst behaved side in world cricket.

5. The comment is true. The problem is that the same people who raise this old cliche re. Australia's behaviour deign not to apply it to the behaviour and actions of other sides, players and administrators.

6. Don't have a drama with waving the bat in joy - my post re. Sreesanth was in reply to one saying that his bad behaviour (assuming he behaved badly) was inspired by McGrath, who I can assure you has never waved a bat in triumph in his life

 

[Matt79]

ffs. This thread is a joke. It's just one extreme arguing against the other.

Really don't think so actually - several "pro-Australian" posters have specifically acknowledged that in several instances the behaviour of the team has been less than stellar, and guys like HB and Sanz have allowed that other teams are often guilty of similar behaviour as well - so its hardly two sets of extremists refusing to allow any debate....

 

[pup11]

When the Aussies lost the Ashes in 05 a lot of critics said that aussies were too goody-goody on the field through the whole series and they lacked the aggression that sets them apart from other teams.


Then there is certain section of cricket pundits who are jealous and frustrated with the Aussie dominance over such a long time, basically this section of cricket pundits hate the Aussies and Gavaskar is very much a part of that section.

 

[Sanz]

Not that hard to see where you're going with these questions, but what the hey.

1. There have been incidents. Gilchrist was called a white c... by the Pakistan wicketkeeper during the 2003 WC. There are others. Some of which are probably missed by the targets of that abuse because its said in Urdu or Hindi. Doesn't mean sub-continental cricketers are all racists, but you can't pretend that it doesn't happen.
2. Obviously there has. That's evident in every post in this thread actually. The simple fact that incidents have occurred doesn't, of itself, prove anything about this issue at hand.
3. I don't think a single poster who has posted defending Australia who has denied issues have occurred. Nobody is attempting to white-wash anything. We've mainly been saying that we think some people, like Gavaskar, might be unfairly exaggerating.
4. See my answer to question 3. I think almost everyone on this site does want to see racism in sport eliminated.
5. So if people make stupid allegations about you, they must be true to some extent?? Given that you've copped a lot of often unfair abuse and criticism in this forum at times, that seems an strange thing for you to be saying.
6. I'm personally not familiar with the incident, but I believe the problem was that he was more waving his bat AT someone, rather than simply waving it in the air. Shades of Shahid Afridi's head explosion actually. Although generally Aussie fans don't use either the Sresanth or Afridi bat incidents to argue that Indian and Pakistani players are all lunatics...

Is that the help you were after?

First of all your points 1 and 5 are contradictory. Wasn't Rashid Cleared by ICC Ref ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport3/cwc2003/hi/newsid_2750000/newsid_2751600/2751675.stm

Secondly - You couldn't produce a single instance of any subcontinent player using racisl abuse. And Lastly it is your assumption that Subcontinent players do that in Hindi/Urdu, because at least 50% of Indian team, Entire SriLankan and BD team doesn't speak/understand any Hindi/Urdu.

That said, I will agree with you that a lot of time Hindi/Urdu speaking Subcontinent players do use the term Gora/Kallu(White/Black). Although I have never heard players like Sachin/Ganguly/Rahul/Laxman etc say that..it is only the illiterates like Afridi do it.

 

[archie mac]

When the Aussies lost the Ashes in 05 a lot of critics said that aussies were too goody-goody on the field through the whole series and they lacked the aggression that sets them apart from other teams.


Then there is certain section of cricket pundits who are jealous and frustrated with the Aussie dominance over such a long time, basically this section of cricket pundits hate the Aussies and Gavaskar is very much a part of that section.

All true

I still think they should leave the Mics on during the match, I love the banter, it would also take out any racist remarks imo