• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Best bowling option for Pakistan in WC

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
Except average doesn't tell the true story, as not-unusual...

He's played 7 games against SL (or bowled 7 times against them) - in his first 4 games he was poor (2 abysmal and 2 OK), in this game he bowled well, and in the other 2 he was poor.

As an economy-rate of 5.28-an-over suggests...

As for an overall-average of 27 (a bit better when you remove the Hong Kongs, Kenyas and Zimbabwes), that's poor with an economy-rate of over 5.5-an-over.

And the fact that he's played a large proportion of his games against Ind and WI accounts for why his average isn't poor despite having done poorly against everyone else.

What do you mean by everyone else? He has done fairly well against SL, has played just one match against NZ, so its not possible to judge his performance against NZ. He has poor performance against Aus, just like any other Pak bowler.

Basically Naveed haven't performed well against Aus and England, thats all.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
Except average doesn't tell the true story, as not-unusual...



As for an overall-average of 27 (a bit better when you remove the Hong Kongs, Kenyas and Zimbabwes), that's poor with an economy-rate of over 5.5-an-over.
.
Except economy rate doesn't tell the true story, how many runs were scored by the batsmen of Naveed bowling that were not there but fielders made it possible!!!
 

PATRIOTIC

Cricket Spectator
Except economy rate doesn't tell the true story, how many runs were scored by the batsmen of Naveed bowling that were not there but fielders made it possible!!!
Very good point. With a fielding side including Kaneria, Razzaq and Yousaf and lead by Inzi, economy doesnt mean too much rather you need a bowler who will get wicket either by bowled, LBW or catch behind the stumps (keeper or slip). Thus Pakistan last resort are bowlers like Ws, Rana (with old ball), Akhtar, or Asif (relying on slip and keeper).

I am sure if Pollock and Ntini bowl with fielders like Inzi, Kaneria and Razzaq instead of AB De Vries, Gibbs, and Prince, they could be much more expensive.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
What do you mean by everyone else? He has done fairly well against SL, has played just one match against NZ, so its not possible to judge his performance against NZ. He has poor performance against Aus, just like any other Pak bowler.

Basically Naveed haven't performed well against Aus and England, thats all.
No, he's performed abysmally against SA and poorly against Aus and Eng (the fact that others have done something similar is no excuse), poorly against NZ in his 1 game and poorly (whatever the overall bowling-average suggests) against SL.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Except economy rate doesn't tell the true story, how many runs were scored by the batsmen of Naveed bowling that were not there but fielders made it possible!!!
That might be fine if the rate was, say, 4.5-an-over, but 5.5-an-over would need one hell of a lot of terrible fielding to happen.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
No, he's performed abysmally against SA and poorly against Aus and Eng (the fact that others have done something similar is no excuse), poorly against NZ in his 1 game and poorly (whatever the overall bowling-average suggests) against SL.
Eng, SA and Aus.. agreed, as for nz , it was just one match, its a norm that one can't judge a player on the basis of one match.And his bowling average against Lanka suggest it was good, particularly when we keep in mind that matches were played mostly on flat pitches.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
That might be fine if the rate was, say, 4.5-an-over, but 5.5-an-over would need one hell of a lot of terrible fielding to happen.
When the worst fielder in the team is the keeper itself, when the weakest area (of the full strength ) team is its fielding, then it is certainly a very terrible fielding team.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And as I say - only if you've got figures to substantiate can you make such a claim, otherwise it's just assumption.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Eng, SA and Aus.. agreed, as for nz , it was just one match, its a norm that one can't judge a player on the basis of one match.And his bowling average against Lanka suggest it was good, particularly when we keep in mind that matches were played mostly on flat pitches.
That doesn't matter, he's still done poorly on all bar 1 occasion.

And the same's true of NZ.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
That doesn't matter, he's still done poorly on all bar 1 occasion.

And the same's true of NZ.
His average is healthy against Lanka, and that all the matters.Warne( who is regraded as greatest spinner in the world) has very poor record against India and SL!! I'm sure though if he had played just one poor match against India, ppl wouldn't have ever pointed to that
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
And as I say - only if you've got figures to substantiate can you make such a claim, otherwise it's just assumption.
NO, its not assumption.Its very difficult to say how many runs were gifted to batsmen when a partcular bowler was bowling, but there is no doubt that every Pakistani bowler suffered at the hands of their fielder.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
His average is healthy against Lanka, and that all the matters.Warne( who is regraded as greatest spinner in the world) has very poor record against India and SL!! I'm sure though if he had played just one poor match against India, ppl wouldn't have ever pointed to that
It's not all that matters - average can sometimes be misleading. What's more important is number-of-good-games and number-of-poor-games.

Warne being regarded as the greatest spinner in The World is ludicrous so don't even start on that.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
NO, its not assumption.Its very difficult to say how many runs were gifted to batsmen when a partcular bowler was bowling, but there is no doubt that every Pakistani bowler suffered at the hands of their fielder.
Over a career, yes, but not in every single game the way you're suggesting.
 

IndianByHeart

U19 Vice-Captain
It's not all that matters - average can sometimes be misleading. What's more important is number-of-good-games and number-of-poor-games.

Warne being regarded as the greatest spinner in The World is ludicrous so don't even start on that.
NUmber of good games...LOL, a player is judge by average, averages are part of record, no one keep count of number of good games.

Rana has been man of series in 2 OD series, so obviously he had numerous good games.Also, the reason i mentioned Warne was to indicate that even a GREAT player like Warne has a poor record against two test nation, this shows that having poor record against a couple of countries doesn't mean that the player happen to be bad.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
NUmber of good games...LOL, a player is judge by average, averages are part of record, no one keep count of number of good games.
Err, what? Good games : poor games ratios are a far better way to judge a player than by average, average is too easily skewed as this Rana-vs-SL case so obviously shows. Any fool can keep count of number of good games and poor ones, all you need to do is look at the scorecards for the games concerned, which in this day and age requires no more than a mouse-click or six.
Rana has been man of series in 2 OD series, so obviously he had numerous good games.
Against India and West Indies, yes.
Also, the reason i mentioned Warne was to indicate that even a GREAT player like Warne has a poor record against two test nation, this shows that having poor record against a couple of countries doesn't mean that the player happen to be bad.
It does unless they've been brilliant for 100-odd matches against everyone else. Rana hasn't. Warne was.
 

rodzilla1010

U19 Cricketer
Even though the top 3 did'nt exactly launch, but i liked the batting order that was used. I think Inzi is in the right state of mind, holding nothing back. If Pakistan is gonna do something worthy to remember in this World cup then Inzimam has to thinkg aggressively. Having 3 of the best batsmen in the team in the first 4 spots is a very brave move and if it pays off, Pakistan will reap big rewards.

Next, having Malik,Afridi and Akmal at 5,6 and 7 gives a little cushion to the Big 3 to craft thier innings and worry less about the scoring rate. After taking a look at the warm up games, i think the key will be to hold wickets in the begining and come after the ball in the end. Akmal agian played a good knock and if the wickets in the WC games will be similar i can see him making a big impact.

Now the Bowlers, Rana is still in a miserable form with the new ball, i think if Rana has to play against WI then he should not open the bowling attack. Rao looked more impressive taking wickets and keeping things right. Gul though didnt get greats stats to show for but he kept it tight too. Kaneria and Mahmood still have big question marks hanging over thier heads. With Sami joining the squad soon, it will come down to Rana v.s Sami and with Afridi banned, it will come down to Mahmood v.s Kaneria. The Warm up agianst SA will break a few ties.

But the Big winner yesterday was Hafiz, he will surely get his place booked in Afridi's absence and if he continues to make impact he might be playing the whole tournament alondside Afridi and Malik as Pakistan's Allround trio.

I think after the warm up against SA, Pakistan will have a good playing 11 on paper.
 

haroon510

International 12th Man
Rao and gul should open the bowling. then azhar should bowle then rana. rana isn't good with new ball and for some reason he always opens the bowling and the result we see is expansive overs. i think azhar mahmood should play and he is an important asset for pakistan.
 

rodzilla1010

U19 Cricketer
Rao and gul should open the bowling. then azhar should bowle then rana. rana isn't good with new ball and for some reason he always opens the bowling and the result we see is expansive overs. i think azhar mahmood should play and he is an important asset for pakistan.

Well my bowling attack would be
Rana/Sami, Rao, Gul,Afridi,Hafiz,Malik...no room for azhar onc afridi comes back
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
For the opening WC game I would now have

Umar Gul
Rana Naved-ul-Hasan
Rao Iftikar
Azhar Mahmood/Danish Kaneria
Shoaib Malik
Mohammed Hafeez
 

Top