Next in line for NZ

[Smudge]

Speaking of up and coming bowlers, did everyone see the results of the high school fast bowling challenge?

Yeah, it rained so the fastest speed was only 129kmh.

 

[Prince EWS]

Having said that, I'd like to know exactly who the "typical NZ seamer" is anyway. It seems to be a devastating put down for any occasion but I'm still not sure exactly who embodies it. I imagine it to be a tall, rather ungainly guy who bowls at about 130kph and is ineffective on flat tracks? But this rather overlooks the fact that imo guys like Daryl Tuffey, James Franklin, Jacob Oram, who I would guess fit the stereotype, have been effective international bowlers (Oram in ODIs only of course...)

Scott Styris springs to my mind, generally. Although he himself was a very effective ODI bowler.

 

[thierry henry]

Scott Styris springs to my mind, generally. Although he himself was a very effective ODI bowler.

Yeah. Until very recently when he has been totally useless (averaging 100+ over his last 10 games or so?) and his record has really blown out.

But the thing is, Styris is a batting all-rounder! Totally unfair to regard him as a typical NZ seamer. Furthermore, as a 5th or 6th bowling option in ODI cricket he isn't much more innocuous than what most teams have.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, it rained so the fastest speed was only 129kmh.

I read somewhere that a 16 year old bowled at 138 earlier in the competition though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah. Until very recently when he has been totally useless (averaging 100+ over his last 10 games or so?) and his record has really blown out.

But the thing is, Styris is a batting all-rounder! Totally unfair to regard him as a typical NZ seamer. Furthermore, as a 5th or 6th bowling option in ODI cricket he isn't much more innocuous than what most teams have.

Styris didn't start off as a batting allrounder though - he starting off as an ODI bowler who could bat a bit.

I normally envisage the "typical NZ seamer" as the Styris-like bowler who is running around in NZ domestic ricket taking bags full of wickets and then not getting selected, due to the selectors knowing it won't work at international level. I always picture Warren McSkimming as this type of bowler even though I've never seen the guy bowl. The fact that the selectors see them as typical NZ seamers means they don't actually get to international level and hence we don't see them get murdered on flat tracks.

Tuffey and Franklin are better than that IMO, in the fact that they bowl with a bit more pace than the stereotype, get some bounce and, when conditions suit, appreciable swing (especially in Franklin's case - in test matches anyway).

 

[thierry henry]

I think you're mistaken then. Styris was always an all-rounder, and he never took bags of wickets. His domestic bowling figures aren't a patch on the "real" NZ seamers who really exploit the conditions. He was always regarded, as he is at international level, as a medium pacer who would be particularly effective in one-day cricket, with his slower balls and variations. Actually, that's what Styris was known as- a bowler with a lot of variations, and a CricketMax (remember that?) specialist.

I would say the typical NZ seamer is a taller, back of a length bowler.

 

[Smudge]

I read somewhere that a 16 year old bowled at 138 earlier in the competition though.

Yes. But not in the final.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think you're mistaken then. Styris was always an all-rounder, and he never took bags of wickets. His domestic bowling figures aren't a patch on the "real" NZ seamers who really exploit the conditions. He was always regarded, as he is at international level, as a medium pacer who would be particularly effective in one-day cricket, with his slower balls and variations. Actually, that's what Styris was known as- a bowler with a lot of variations, and a CricketMax (remember that?) specialist.

I would say the typical NZ seamer is a taller, back of a length bowler.

Yeah, I'm not exactly saying that Styris was/is a typical NZ seamer - just that I envisage someone bowling in a similar way to him as said stereotype. Styris himself never achieved such glory with the ball but I always envisaged someone bowling in a similar fashion to him, with perhaps less variation, to be doing so in NZ domestic cricket. I could well be mistaken though, because I've never seen a game.

 

[Smudge]

I always picture Wade McSkimming as this type of bowler even though I've never seen the guy bowl.

Warren.

 

[Prince EWS]

Warren.

Indeed. Don't know where I got Wade from.

 

[Richard]

Having said that, I'd like to know exactly who the "typical NZ seamer" is anyway. It seems to be a devastating put down for any occasion but I'm still not sure exactly who embodies it. I imagine it to be a tall, rather ungainly guy who bowls at about 130kph and is ineffective on flat tracks?

The Dick Motzes, Richard Collinges and Danny Morrisons of this World...

Though obviously we can only guess how fast such bowlers were.

 

[Smudge]

The Dick Motzes, Richard Collinges and Danny Morrisons of this World...

Though obviously we can only guess how fast such bowlers were.

Heard something pretty staggering about Motz on the radio yesterday. From Cricinfo:

Dick Motz was a robust, indefatigable seamer, but one who wasn't used to success - New Zealand won only four of his 32 Tests. On his first tour - to South Africa in 1961-62 - he took 19 wickets in his country's most successful Test series, and though he had lost some of his edge by 1969, he became the first New Zealander to reach 100 Test wickets, against England at The Oval. Good job he did, as at the end of the summer it was discovered that he'd been bowling for 18 months with a displaced vertebra. He retired immediately. As a beefy lower-order slogger Motz was a dangerous customer, and made three fifties, all against England, all laden with sixes. He subsequently became a taxi driver.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, I read that a while back.

A bit like Imran and his right shin.

 

[thierry henry]

The Dick Motzes, Richard Collinges and Danny Morrisons of this World...

Though obviously we can only guess how fast such bowlers were.

What makes those 3 similar to each other?

 

[Richard]

They were Kiwi and they were far more effective at home than away.

Collinge, for instance, was a fearsome prospect in NZ but no great shakes away (and he hated leaving his family, which probably played a part there, too). Morrison was pretty decent in NZ and absolutely hopeless elsewhere.

Not so sure about the particulars of the Motz case.

Collinge also had the height factor you mention.

 

[thierry henry]

You've got that one very wrong Morrison, about 5'8'', is one of the shortest fast bowlers I've ever seen.

 

[thierry henry]

Anyway- given traditional NZ pitches, surely most fast bowlers would do better here than elsewhere. Therefore, the "typical NZ seamer" isn't really a certain type or style of bowler at all, but merely a very mediocre bowler, right?

 

[Richard]

Well - more a very specific type. One who relies heavily on seam with less high-calibre use of swing, particularly of the reverse variety.

And WRT Morrison. Will edit the post before 50 other Kiwis jump on me.

 

[Smudge]

They were Kiwi and they were far more effective at home than away.

Collinge, for instance, was a fearsome prospect in NZ but no great shakes away (and he hated leaving his family, which probably played a part there, too). Morrison was pretty decent in NZ and absolutely hopeless elsewhere.

Not so sure about the particulars of the Motz case.

Morrison and Collinge also had the height factor you mention, IIRR.

You've got that one very wrong Morrison, about 5'8'', is one of the shortest fast bowlers I've ever seen.

As thierry said, Morrison and Collinge having the height factor? Collinge, at about 6'5, yes, but Morrison? Stop pontificating arrogantly about players you have no idea about.

 

[Richard]

Err, what? I've already admitted my mistake on the Morrison case. How exactly are you so sure how much I know about them.