Males banned from watching the women world cup qualifiers in Pakistan

[dass]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

what are u talking about?

 

[pasag]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

wtf?

 

[andyc]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

Would normally have let that slip as a misguided attempt at humour, but I'll report it.

 

[nightprowler10]

So, just to be straight on this, it actually is a step forward in the sense of women being allowed to play competitive cricket in Pakistan, right? (The article suggests that Pakistan wouldn't recognize or host such an event in the past.) If that's the case, I guess it's a case of baby steps - it also sounds like a plus that they can wear their standard uniforms instead of what sounds like the more concealing clothing originally preferred. That alone must signify some progress. If they allow male officials, they will soon run out of internally consistent (I prefer using that description to reasonable or plausible for obvious reasons) arguments to keep out non-spousal/familial males though.

The whole idea of banning men from the event is IMO bulldust, as is much of the general idea of women as passive *** objects and men as leering animals in some sections of Islamic society, but pragmatically, it seems a step in the right direction that they are supporting the womens' right to play. Hopefully further change will take place on various fronts once certain doors get opened.

You always walk a fine line with issues like this though - you either find the conditions unacceptable in which case the event simply doesn't take place, or you cautiously accept the conditions with the risk that you will be interpreted as supporting them.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People are quick to call these steps disgusting but don't take into account the fact the PCB didn't have much choice. Let's not forget the fact that female marathon runners were hurled rocks at in Lahore last summer by men who support the MMA's ideology. Who's to say they won't show up at the cricket match and hurl rocks at the women playing? With the relatively moderate Islamic government making other changes in the country regarding women's rights, these people are becoming more and more violent.

I'm not going to pretend that the PCB did it for the protection of the match and the players, but its probably for the better at this point.

 

[PY]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

What on earth are you on about Rodgie?

 

[biased indian]

i think the decision is actually good because i know single men would definatly distract the game, by being vulgar to the women. The lowclass punjabis in pakistan and also in india can be very rude and vulgar to women, and i know there have been incidents before where these women cricketers were ***ually harassed by single men. and the whole reason behind this decision is actually to have more women spectators.

 

[nightprowler10]

I have to say I'm a bit offended with him generalizing Punjabis, tbh

 

[adharcric]

Disgraceful. It's tough to blame the PCB too much for this as they are probably just playing it safe (well illustrated by np10) given the background of such situations.

What a completely ridiculous attitude. The mere fact that certain people believe something doesn't make it right, fair or just, and dismissing issues of consequence as mere divergence of opinion is stupid. I'm sure many people in the south in the US felt that Jim Crow laws were fine, plenty of white South Africans were fond of Apartheid and plenty of people in Nazi Germany felt that exterminating the Jews was the way to go.

I'm all for taking a relativist approach to cultural differences, but when it comes to simple issues of ethics it's a totally different matter. Not that this particular issue is a crucial one, but your attitude on it is baffling.

Completely agree. Such attitudes really **** me off. Anyways, I feel very strongly about "such issues" (let's leave it at that) so I won't delve any further because it could get ugly.

 

[Smudge]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

A man in your position can't afford to be picky.

 

[PakPowered]

If men aren't allowed to watch women play then how come women are allowed to watch men play.

because over here, women know how to behave, unfortunately a lot of men over here don't know how to behave,

 

[pasag]

Brilliant decision never liked Pakistani Women myself.

i think the decision is actually good because i know single men would definatly distract the game, by being vulgar to the women. The lowclass punjabis in pakistan and also in india can be very rude and vulgar to women, and i know there have been incidents before where these women cricketers were ***ually harassed by single men. and the whole reason behind this decision is actually to have more women spectators.

because over here, women know how to behave, unfortunately a lot of men over here don't know how to behave,

Struggling to decide who has the worst post in this thread tbh.

 

[Craig]

What was meant to be a decent thread has become very dire.

 

[Richard]

What a completely ridiculous attitude. The mere fact that certain people believe something doesn't make it right, fair or just, and dismissing issues of consequence as mere divergence of opinion is stupid. I'm sure many people in the south in the US felt that Jim Crow laws were fine, plenty of white South Africans were fond of Apartheid and plenty of people in Nazi Germany felt that exterminating the Jews was the way to go.

I'm all for taking a relativist approach to cultural differences, but when it comes to simple issues of ethics it's a totally different matter. Not that this particular issue is a crucial one, but your attitude on it is baffling.

So long as this particular issue is not an especially crucial one, I'll hold such an attitude. I never said it was fair, or just, or anything of the sort (there may, however, be sound reasons behind it as demonstrated by some comments on this thread).

It's completely different where religious homophobia, ***ism etc. are concerned and I'd think that it'd be pretty obvious that I'd stand-up and speak-out against such things. And, obviously, the Apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany things etc.

To make such a comparison is pretty ludicrous, really.

 

[Richard]

i think the decision is actually good because i know single men would definatly distract the game, by being vulgar to the women. The lowclass punjabis in pakistan and also in india can be very rude and vulgar to women, and i know there have been incidents before where these women cricketers were ***ually harassed by single men. and the whole reason behind this decision is actually to have more women spectators.

because over here, women know how to behave, unfortunately a lot of men over here don't know how to behave,

Struggling to decide who has the worst post in this thread tbh.

TBH, I'm interested that you could suggest that either is definitively the worst post - fair enough, the generalisation about Punjabis ain't the smartest thing, but unless you've experienced the situation on the ground in Pakistan I don't see how you can dismiss such sentiments as ludicrous.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It's completely different where religious homophobia, ***ism etc. are concerned and I'd think that it'd be pretty obvious that I'd stand-up and speak-out against such things. And, obviously, the Apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany things etc.

How is gender segregation in crowds at sporting events not ***ism? The administrators decision might be a practical one and not one born out of predjudice, but certainly it reflects a ***ist community when a female sporting event requires male fans be banned to have it go ahead without violence or whatever.

Anyway, I was responding your apparent attitude that an issue of cultural difference was not something that could be criticised. If that wasn't the point you intended to make, that's fine, but that's how it came across.

 

[pasag]

TBH, I'm interested that you could suggest that either is definitively the worst post - fair enough, the generalisation about Punjabis ain't the smartest thing, but unless you've experienced the situation on the ground in Pakistan I don't see how you can dismiss such sentiments as ludicrous.

Yeah not knowing alot about the specific issue at hand, I can only guess that the men are not allowed because of religious issues such as modesty etc and the connection between religion and the government. NOT because they are afraid of the 'evil men who can't keep their dicks in their pants and can't control themselves' . Those two posts you quoted me quoting were further perpetuating the demonisation of men and were thus idiotic.

 

[Richard]

How is gender segregation in crowds at sporting events not ***ism? The administrators decision might be a practical one and not one born out of predjudice, but certainly it reflects a ***ist community when a female sporting event requires male fans be banned to have it go ahead without violence or whatever.

Anyway, I was responding your apparent attitude that an issue of cultural difference was not something that could be criticised. If that wasn't the point you intended to make, that's fine, but that's how it came across.

It certainly wasn't the point I intended to make - the point I intended to make was that cultural differences are too often criticised (especially Eastern cultures by us Westerners) simply because they're different. When such differences are (IMO) wrong, I'm all for that, but as I say - I think too many people go OTT too often, and that merely shoves the chisel further in the East-West divide. Not that anyone has particularly done so in this thread, but I was simply saying in general (and hopefully discouraging any such remarks).

And WRT why's it not ***ism? If there are sound and logical reasons for it, I don't see how it can be such. Same way it's not prejudice of any kind to separate rival fans in the stands at football matches. It's a safety issue - this may well be one such case.

The way I understand it (and it does seem to have been touched on once or twice in this thread) the Pakistani Govornment is making some effort to clamp-down on ***ism which is inbred in society.

 

[Richard]

Yeah not knowing alot about the specific issue at hand, I can only guess that the men are not allowed because of religious issues such as modesty etc and the connection between religion and the government. NOT because they are afraid of the 'evil men who can't keep their dicks in their pants and can't control themselves' . Those two posts you quoted me quoting were further perpetuating the demonisation of men and were thus idiotic.

I'm as big a hater of said generalisation as you could wish to meet. There's little I despise more than all of us being tarred with such a brush by ignoramuses.

But there's no denying that such guys do exist, and they're certainly not totally insignificant in number, and IF they're abundant in said places, these people might just know a teeny bit more about it than you or me (certainly me).

And IMO Rodgie's post was significantly worse than either, even if he was just being a pratt.

 

[pasag]

I'm as big a hater of said generalisation as you could wish to meet. There's little I despise more than all of us being tarred with such a brush by ignoramuses.

But there's no denying that such guys do exist, and they're certainly not totally insignificant in number, and IF they're abundant in said places, these people might just know a teeny bit more about it than you or me (certainly me).

And IMO Rodgie's post was significantly worse than either, even if he was just being a pratt.

Agree re: Rodgie

However, those two posts in question were typical statements that are a products of thousands of years of indoctrination from most/many cultures that say men can't keep it in their pants. I highly doubt that there are crowds of thousands upon thousands of men hurling abuse at the women cricketers, but if there are, which I doubt there are, I apologize. (But I don't think there are, it might be isolated incidents, if any).

Not a fan of this topic, so I might just leave it at that.

 

[Beleg]

Richard,

Gender segregation is, by defintion, ***ism. However, the point to be noted here is that some people divide ***ism into two categories - positive and negative, believing the former to be a necessary characteristic in a cultured society.

But there's no denying that such guys do exist, and they're certainly not totally insignificant in number, and IF they're abundant in said places, these people might just know a teeny bit more about it than you or me (certainly me).

Men are allowed in only if they are with 'families': family, in the Pakistani context meaning, women. Hence, a forty year old married 'pervert' can come and watch the game if he brings along his wife but a single guy, or a group of guys, interested in watching the game, or just wanting to come along to support a friend of theirs/team are barred.