Sack Fleming says Parore

[James]

Adam Parore: Fleming should step down in favour of Vettori

Interesting to hear Adam Parore's thoughts, and he makes some good points. Especially this:

New Zealand's overall win record in ODIs is about 45 per cent, while the winning ratio under his leadership is about 47 per cent. So he's only a whisker better than average.

Even Martin Crowe managed 49 per cent from his 44 games and he had some pretty ordinary players to work with. Fleming has had the cream of the crop in terms of talent.

Judging by this, what could Martin Crowe have done with today's team?

 

[Matt79]

Provided it with an additional world class batsman for a start - Crowe's team had Crowe in it! Bit of an overreaction surely for failing in one ODI series, given how long Fleming has been held to be one of the best captains going around...

 

[James]

I suppose what Parore is getting at is with the record that Fleming has and the players he's had to choose from, he still has a worse record than Crowe. And with that in mind, how can he be considered one of the best captains?

 

[Matt79]

did Crowe have Hadlee?

If Fleming had Bond available more often, Parore might have a point, but I think he's being a bit harsh.

 

[James]

As far as I know, no he didn't. Hadlee played his last matche in 1990, and I believe Crowe wasn't made captain until the following year.

The best bowler of Crowe's time as captain was probably Danny Morrison which says something....

 

[Richard]

Personally I always think such win-percentages are pretty dubious ways to judge a captain.

What matters is: is there substantial evidence to suggest that Daniel Vettori (or someone) would be a better captain - now (irrelevant to what's happened in the past) than Stephen Fleming?

Unless the answer's yes, I don't see how you can justify calling for Fleming's head.

And there are hundreds of ways better to judge a captain than results.

 

[Matt79]

As far as I know, no he didn't. Hadlee played his last matche in 1990, and I believe Crowe wasn't made captain until the following year.

The best bowler of Crowe's time as captain was probably Danny Morrison which says something....

There you go - I was under the mistaken impression that Crowe was captain a fair bit earlier than that...

 

[Smudge]

Personally, I know it's an easy excuse, but I'd blame Bracewell. He's had a much tighter rein on the team than when, say, Aberhart was in charge. Back at that stage, Fleming seemed to have a lot more control over the side, tactics and even his demeanour towards the media was a lot less cluttered. I don't want to see Fleming dropped.

And James, who do you think should take over? Considering you don't think Vettori is worthy of a spot in the ODI team...

 

[thierry henry]

Unsurprisingly, my take on this is that I'd like to see Vettori kept away from the captaincy so that he can be dropped whenever the selectors wake up to themselves about how useless he is, especially in tests

 

[NZTailender]

Fleming to stay captain until whenever he feels is the right time for him to retire, IMO.


Fulton to be next captain?

 

[Craig]

Fleming to stay captain until whenever he feels is the right time for him to retire, IMO.


Fulton to be next captain?

As ignorant as it may sound, has Fulton ever captained before for Canterbury?

 

[Craig]

Unsurprisingly, my take on this is that I'd like to see Vettori kept away from the captaincy so that he can be dropped whenever the selectors wake up to themselves about how useless he is, especially in tests

Well he did pick up ten wickets in his last Test, so it isn't that useless.

And he has as much chance of being dropped as there is of Michael Hussey being dropped from the Australian team.

 

[thierry henry]

 

[AussieDominance]

Nah Vettori has to be the next captain and has a good record and his guareenteed to be in the team. He has also been one of the World's best bowling allrounders over the last few years some might question his batting but http://cricketweb.net/statsspider/player/graph/686460-Test-5.php shows that he can bat.

Some might question his captaincy qualificiations but as far as Im concerned he has learnt for many years off Fleming and will take over once he retires

 

[thierry henry]

No, you would question his bowling. Probing questions such as "why do you concede that many runs?", and "why don't you take wickets?".

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

He certainly doesn't deserve to be dropped in ODIs. He'd make most teams in the world.

In tests he's obviously less effective, but he's still the best option NZ have by a long way.

 

[Stumped]

when a kiwi prick gets a four off a snick thats parore

 

[social]

Interesting topic - was thinking the same myself during odi series

I think he should go post world cup - doing it now would really cause an upheaval in the side

He's been there for eons and it doesnt matter how good u are, after a while the message is bound to fall on deaf ears because the players have heard it all before

Also, his batting is struggling and it might do him the world of good just to be a "player" again

 

[NZTailender]

No, you would question his bowling. Probing questions such as "why do you concede that many runs?", and "why don't you take wickets?".

Where have you been?

 

[Macka]

Yes, get rid of Fleming as captain. I've been saying this for some time now:

If Fleming hasn't given us everything as captain by now, then he never will. It will also free him up to concentrate on his batting until he retires.