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***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

pup11

International Coach
IMO releasing tait from the finals squad was poor decision, its pretty obvious that with watson in the squad white won't be in the XI, so it would have been better to have tait in the squad for white so in case a fast bowler looked out of touch(mind you which most of them in the current squad are looking), then tait could have replaced them.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
IMO releasing tait from the finals squad was poor decision, its pretty obvious that with watson in the squad white won't be in the XI, so it would have been better to have tait in the squad for white so in case a fast bowler looked out of touch(mind you which most of them in the current squad are looking), then tait could have replaced them.
What if Watson looked out of touch? Or Hodge?

Johnson is in the squad as the backup fast bowler - Hogg will play now that Watson is back. White is in there as the backup batsman.
 

pup11

International Coach
Fair point princey, but it would have been nice to see taito in action, hope he plays in the chapplle-hadlee trophy.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Selfish Innings

There's absolutely no doubt Fleming lost us that game. He's a very selfish player to take so long in the 90s as he did. (Which is understandable, given his extrmely poor 50s:100s ratio.) He was the settled player, having batted the entire innings, and he wasn't able to win us the game from a winning position. Moreover, he wasn't even able to generate a strike-rate at that stage in the innings; he actually managed to slow down. I can understand other players taking risks, but Fleming simply had to score some runs.

He's a poor runner between the wickets, and that places a lot of preasure on other players. He doesn't, and isn't, placing the ball well, which leads to a lack of 1s, 2s, and 3s. When he's flowing, which is rare, this isn't a problem because he hits boundaries.

Ironically, we would have been better off if Fleming had run himself out and not Taylor, our best batsmen for the series. I seriously hope Fleming gives up the captaincy after the world cup. In fact, I'd support him giving up the captaincy tomorrow; it was a pathetic, selfish innings from a very experienced player.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
I actually agree with most of that, and that's probably one of the best posts you've ever written. When you're less attacking and insulting to other nations, your posts are much better, and far less trollish.
I thought the exact same thing when I read it, actually. Definitely one of the best posts SP has ever made on cricket.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Fleming's innings wasn't that selfish. It was a case of him knowing that he had to bat till the end of the innings, and then him being unable to execute the increase in the run-rate.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Apparently Lewis & Tremlett have now had to fly home with injuries. At the risk of sounding like FST, I don't know wtf is going on out there with our quicks. None of Anderson, Lewis or Tremlett can have bowled more than 40 overs in this tourney, but apparently it's all too much for their frail bodies. It would be fun to hear our physio's thoughts on the matter, which shouldn't amount to much more than a letter of resignation.

Broad's joined the squad btw.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Apparently Lewis & Tremlett have now had to fly home with injuries. At the risk of sounding like FST, I don't know wtf is going on out there with our quicks. None of Anderson, Lewis or Tremlett can have bowled more than 40 overs in this tourney, but apparently it's all too much for their frail bodies. It would be fun to hear our physio's thoughts on the matter, which shouldn't amount to much more than a letter of resignation.

Broad's joined the squad btw.
Is obviously not a reason for all or most injuries but the lack of barefoot training and the wearing of massively supportive boots in cricket and shoes in real life prevents the development of stabalizer muscles in the legs. This then puts extra work on body parts allover including legs, back etc.
 

BlackCap_Fan

State Vice-Captain
My thoughts on Fleming's innings are that it was good; but not the innings we needed for the situation. He was great until about the 40th over or so, when he got bogged down. It's pretty amazing when you look at the statistics; 102 runs for 149 balls. That's half the innings, for 102 runs. Nowhere near fast enough.

I think he wanted to play anchor whilst someone on the other end, such as Styris, Mccullum, Oram, or, if worse came to worse, Franklin, plays the biffer. Then, when he realized that his master plan started failing around him, he tried to up the run rate, and got out.

Disappointed by our peformance. At the 30 over mark, we were 150/2, with a set Fleming and Taylor doing well. Considering we've got close to totals of well over 300 (and even won one of them; I really must find a video of that match, 'twas a good one) against good attacks, I don't see how we couldn't get 120 off 20 overs with 8 wickets in hand.

:mellow:
 

PY

International Coach
There must be something going on with training or warm-ups or downs or something because this is bordering on ridiculous now. It seems that any niggle means they stop playing and get cotton-wooled back to England.

Interesting what you say Goughy, you reckon that might be why Ntini very rarely gets injured because I've read somewhere that he was brought up on barefoot bowling?
 
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Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Interesting what you say Goughy, you reckon that might be why Ntini very rarely gets injured because I've read somewhere that he was brought up on barefoot bowling?
Very possibly. TBH, its been the general philosophy here in SA for a long time where many Whites and Blacks do not wear shoes. Even on the hottest days when the tarmac is red hot the Afrikaaners walk around barefoot. Funny to see them in beautiful school uniforms and no shoes.

Unfortunately this has been changing in sports recently and injuries have been increasing.

1 word of advise for all young quickies, do all your warmup runs on grass barefoot and run barefoot as much as possible. Let your legs develop and learn how to deal with the movement and torque of running rather than relying 100% on the modern shoe technology to do it for you.
 

pup11

International Coach
Yeah i think fleming's innings was a tad slower considering the situation of the game, but i think the other batsmen are to be blamed more because they were never really able to support flem and set a decent pace to the innings.
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
Now that we're out of the series, I thought I might give everyone a rating out of ten. Let's see:

Astle - 1. Made 45 v England and stuff-all else. Was sad to see him retire, but he really was struggling out there.
Fleming - 4. Consistenly got starts despite looking way out of touch but would then throw it away. His hundred was a good innings but could have been scored more quickly, especially considering the start we got. Captaincy wasn't all that great either.
Vincent - 8. Against all probability Lou Vincent backed up a good score with several more. Should have turned at least one of those fifties into hundreds though. Threw his wicket away in the last game. Still wouldn't be suprised if he fails every game of the C-H series though.
Fulton - 5. Made a start in pretty much every game but would then chip one to the infield. Didn't rotate the strike enough early in his innings. Catching fell to pieces.
Taylor - 6. Could have done far better than what he did really. A few injudicious shots + Fleming running him out stopped him from really making a mark. Should be batting at 3. Several errors in the field as well.
Styris - 4. Bit harsh to judge him really seeing as he only played two games but he looked pretty scratchy. Bowling was what you usually expect from him.
McMillan - 3. One good score, where he should have been gone early on proved to be yet another false dawn for Craig McMillan. Same old, same old.
Oram - 7. Started with a bang and played the innings of his life vs Aus. Failed when it really mattered though. Bowling was unpenetrative and not as economical as it used to be.
McCullum - 5. The opening experiment feels like it was years ago now. Threw his wicket away while opening; failed down the order when it mattered vs England. Keeping started out OK and got better as the series progressed.
Vettori - 6. Bowling was pretty good for the first half of the series but then declined. Was milked for too many singles. Didn't do anything with the bat, but at least he's not batting at 5 anymore 8-)
Franklin - 6. A bit of a surprise packet - everyone was expecting him to be slapped all over the place and he didn't disappoint in the first game. After that though, he bowled reasonably well. Chipped in a few handy runs, though nothing substantial. Miraculously turned from one of our safest pairs of hands to the slipperiest.
Bond - 4. Disappointing, really. Took a lucky hat-trick in the first game, bowled economically in the second before the usual injuries took over, and came back bowling poorly. Looked good in the final game, but an expensive final over proved crucial (though better catching would have helped).
Gillespie - 5. First few games were excellent, and if certain people could catch could have been one of the top bowlers in the series. As it was though, he tired as the series went on and was a bit expensive (though more unlucky than any other bowler). Two main problems - 1) Bowls too many no-balls and 2) Seam position. I've seen him get a perfect seam position once, and that was when he bowled Mahela Jayawardene with a massive inswinger earlier this year. Usually it's scrambled and I can't work out why he can't keep it straight - maybe trying to bowl too fast or bowl too much into-the-pitch.
Patel - 5. His figures don't really show how well he bowled, because at times he was excellent. Tended to get spanked in one over every game though. Fielded well.
Mills - 1. Was clearly out of it in the only game he played. Quite a shame really, he was finally repaying the endless faith in him shown by Bracewell. Looks like he'll be out for the World Cup, which means huge responsibility for Franklin.
Marshall - 1. Only played one game, off memory, and made a duck. Dropped a catch too in one of his many sub-fielder appearances. Pity his career has gone absolutely down the toilet, because he was looking so good when he first came on the scene.
Adams - N/A. Didn't play at all.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Very possibly. TBH, its been the general philosophy here in SA for a long time where many Whites and Blacks do not wear shoes. Even on the hottest days when the tarmac is red hot the Afrikaaners walk around barefoot. Funny to see them in beautiful school uniforms and no shoes.

Unfortunately this has been changing in sports recently and injuries have been increasing.

1 word of advise for all young quickies, do all your warmup runs on grass barefoot and run barefoot as much as possible. Let your legs develop and learn how to deal with the movement and torque of running rather than relying 100% on the modern shoe technology to do it for you.
But doesn't walking/running on barefoot put a lot of unneeded pressure on the ankles, achilles tendon, and spine?

And aren't Afrikaaners a tough/hard lot anyway, I mean getting into a fight with a Afrikanner farmer would be the same as me insulting Oscar de la Hoya's family.
 

Steulen

International Regular
Is obviously not a reason for all or most injuries but the lack of barefoot training and the wearing of massively supportive boots in cricket and shoes in real life prevents the development of stabalizer muscles in the legs. This then puts extra work on body parts allover including legs, back etc.
That's the new foot injury paradigm, yes.

Have to be careful, though. A fast bowler's foot actions, particularly in the last few strides before release, means the muscles, ligaments and capsule of the foot and ankle have to cope with enormous forces which are way beyond normal walking or even running. Anatomically, I can't see how these structures can cope with it over a sustained period; the direction of forces is different compared to normal walking/running, and these stabilization mechanisms aren't 'tuned' to counteract forces in that direction. Which is why a lot of fast bowlers develop bony enlargements for instance, especially near tendon insertions.

Anyway, imo not wearing these highly protective shoes during fast bowling would be crazy, because the natural anatomical and physiological defences will not be enough to withstand those weird-vector forces.
 

brockley

International Captain
Funny thing is goucester have picked a replacment for marshall assuming he is going to the world cup,and he won't get oicked for the world cup,what a pickle.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
There's absolutely no doubt Fleming lost us that game. He's a very selfish player to take so long in the 90s as he did. (Which is understandable, given his extrmely poor 50s:100s ratio.) He was the settled player, having batted the entire innings, and he wasn't able to win us the game from a winning position. Moreover, he wasn't even able to generate a strike-rate at that stage in the innings; he actually managed to slow down. I can understand other players taking risks, but Fleming simply had to score some runs.

He's a poor runner between the wickets, and that places a lot of preasure on other players. He doesn't, and isn't, placing the ball well, which leads to a lack of 1s, 2s, and 3s. When he's flowing, which is rare, this isn't a problem because he hits boundaries.

Ironically, we would have been better off if Fleming had run himself out and not Taylor, our best batsmen for the series. I seriously hope Fleming gives up the captaincy after the world cup. In fact, I'd support him giving up the captaincy tomorrow; it was a pathetic, selfish innings from a very experienced player.


I would've thought Styris, Oram, Fulton and McCullum failing to make a decent fight of it lost us the game rather than someone who stuck in there and got a century.

We needed someone else to stand up and get a century or at least a 70 and a few more contributions. As it was, most threw their wicket away.

I get quite sick of Fleming bashing, simply because NZ fans need one scapegoat to blame the entire match on.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Right, if England win a single game in the finals, I'll have Paul Nixon in my avatar till Australia's first game in the World Cup.
 

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