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***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nice performances from the Durham duo, Plunkett coming back from his initial load of rubbish. The seam position Plunkett gets on the ball is brilliant but he's simply not bowled the overs yet in his lifetime to control where the ball goes. His cameo with the bat pushes his ODI batting average up to 22.72 at a strike rate of 87, pretty handy.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Plunkett should go to the WC now, given that he's the only performing ODI seamer England seem to have outside of the main three that will be in the first XI. The main worry with him is the same with Saj though. Both of them can take wickets if they get it right, but the consistency isn't there at all. Even in the game where he took 3/20 odd Plunkett bowled a heap of wides, and he was absolutely horrible in his opening spell tonight.

In all though, the bowling isn't shaping up too badly, with Lewis, Anderson, Flintoff and Panesar as the main attack and Plunkett as reasonable support. The fifth bowler options aren't great, but at least Collingwood and Darlymple can share the overs rather than one of them having to bowl a straight 10, and Pietersen will be in the mix too.

That bowling attack won't inspire fear in anyone, but it should be servicable more often than not. The batting will be the main worry.
 

pup11

International Coach
IMO its a fabulous comeback by the english side, when they almost looked down and out and from there to come and perform like this is a superb effort. I just hope they can carry this momentum into the final series.
 

Neil Pickup

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Difference between Plunkett and Saj is that Plunkett bowls wicket balls in amongst the tripe. Saj just bowls tripe the vast majority of the time.
 

PY

International Coach
Headline:

"Keeper Foster given England start..."

I was thinking "what the heck, they've called up Foster for the finals before the WC".

Then I read it, and it's Ben Foster for the England football side. Stupid headline writers. :laugh:
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I knew Collingwood would score today, he was superb. But...

I did not know, nor did I think even possible, that England could win the game today. I knew they'd be competitive, but a bowling line-up of Plunkett and Mahmood was always going to catch up with them, or so I thought.

NZ need to have a good hard look at themselves, they just lost to an England ODI team missing 4-5 of its first 11-12 players, an England team which is ordinary at full strength as is, let alone when missing its prime team members. Embarassing stuff.

I did warn Kiwi fans that the claims of "If we lose one game to England this series we ought to be ashamed of ourselves" was always going to bite you back in the ass. Never thought it'd bite you back in this fashion though :ph34r:
 

Raghav

International Vice-Captain
I am really dissapointed by the way NZ bowled and fielded. The fielding display by kiwis in this tournment is below par. I never saw kiwi fielders spilling catches in that manner. It is not the bowling or the batting that lost the games for NZ, it is their pathetic fielding.

Here are some comments that I can make out of the series:

Fleming: His Captaincy was good . But his batting technique was so ugly that he could even middle the ball even after playing 47 overs(last game against england) .

Vincent: Thanks for Astle, Vincent is good prospect for WC

Fulton: Fulton rightly fits in the spot at No.3 .He settles quickly. Thats more important. I would love if he can convert his good starts in to big inngs

Ross Taylor: Simply Superb!

Craig McMillan: He is no more required if styris performs consistently.

Scott Styris: Good slow bowling!

Jacob Oram: Bowling is really a concern. Had he perform better with the ball, we could have easily playing the finals.

Daniel Vettori: Very defensive bowler. Sometimes, I feel on Patel is better than him

Jeetan Patel: Bowler with bright future

Bond: Very normal bowler, He did not produce his magic as everone is expecting.

Franklin: His poor bowling and fielding costed us a place in finals.

Gillespie: Reliable bowler

All the kiwis forgot catching cricket ball., bracewell should make them learn catching a football first.

Very dissapointed with the way they FIELDED.

From ...

A Disheartened KIWI FAN.
 

Raghav

International Vice-Captain
:@

Well Itz Proven That The Black Caps R Big Chokers....shame Shame Shame On U Fleming.......u Bunch Of No Hopers...i Have Lost Faith In The Nz Team......

Australia Is The Best Team In The World Cause They Dnt Crack Under Pressure....

Sack Fleming.............bring Back Chris Harris........im Sooo Lost For Words.........
Australia don't crack in Pressure... It will crack in a match where there is no pressure. They will create pressure and lose against minnows like Bangladesh
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know I'll get whinged at as usual for saying this, but this match is an example of why I've never rated NZ's chances in a World Cup.

So many things went right for them, they got England three down early on and Bond was bowling well and the two players at the crease are woefully out of form. Then when they let that slip they got off to a great start without having to do anything really and none of their top 5 got a good 'un early on so they've all got an opportunity to fire. They got a bit of run against Flintoff who was bowling well, it was all setup nicely for them only needing 71 off the last 9 overs with 7 wickets left on a batter's pitch. Flintoff only had 2 overs left and he was the only genuine death bowler, there's two batsmen in with two hard-hitting batsmen to come and several bowlers who can bat pretty nicely. The experience is comprehensively on NZ's side.

Yet England end up winning easily. It's no good people complaining about a favourite hate figure like Franklin or moaning about Fleming batting too slowly or some bad fielding. NZ just don't have the mental strength, that's why they lost. They played better than England for most of the game and fell apart at the business end. This weakness has been there for years, that's why they lose narrowly to Australia so often. This weakness is going to get exaggerated in the World Cup. Look at how much better NZ when they've got nothing to lose (ie when they're getting tonked by Australia), they can pull some good cricket off then but by then it's too late. Even if NZ had the mental strength I think they just lack that 'genius' factor other teams have that would help them beat say an Australia really going for it, but they would be a fairly safe bet to make the semis or final.

As for England I think Vaughan's captaincy is so crucial, I doubt they'd have won if Flintoff or whoever was captain. Not only does he use the bowlers better and have better fielding placings he also has an infectious winning mentality which will be crucial if England can manage to stay in games. With Vaughan as captain England win a far better percentage of ODIs than with Strauss, Tresco or Flintoff as captain.
 
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superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Was watching a bit of the game in a bar then we went to the casino when NZ were cruising it, caught the final over in the casino couldn't believe we'd won.

So I get to see England play on Friday after all :cool:

Just hope we put up a decent fight. Anyone else going?
 

sportychic33

State 12th Man
I am really dissapointed by the way NZ bowled and fielded. The fielding display by kiwis in this tournment is below par. I never saw kiwi fielders spilling catches in that manner. It is not the bowling or the batting that lost the games for NZ, it is their pathetic fielding.

Here are some comments that I can make out of the series:

Fleming: His Captaincy was good . But his batting technique was so ugly that he could even middle the ball even after playing 47 overs(last game against england) .
Fleming's captaincy was nowhere near good, take the MCG for example, he placed his fieldsman too far back and gave away easy singles and twos which got Ponting and Hodge's eyes in. He looks lacking in leading the team, he hardly offers words of encouragement and looks as if he does not want to be there. His 100 was absolutely selfish.

Vincent: Thanks for Astle, Vincent is good prospect for WC
Fulton: Fulton rightly fits in the spot at No.3 .He settles quickly. Thats more important. I would love if he can convert his good starts in to big inngs
Fulton has potential with the bat but looks pathetic in the field, he can't catch, although I don't know whether that is because NZCricket has employed a flaming Softball player as the fielding coach. Scored too slowly last night, put too much pressure especially with Fleming at the other end being completely selfish on getting a good score

Ross Taylor: Simply Superb!
No, he has showed glimpses of good innings but in the field he is a risk. He over runs simple out-field opportunities and becomes a risk often turning singles into 2's.

Craig McMillan: He is no more required if styris performs consistently.
Keep him in there, senior player, offers a bit of fight.


Scott Styris: Good slow bowling!
Bowling looks good. I think I would prefer Oram coming in ahead of him with the bat, especially in situations like last night at the Gabba and Sunday at the MCG, as he scores slowly, offers no sense of urgency, whereas once Oram gets his eye in and isn't under too much pressure can blow the game open with the bat.

Jacob Oram: Bowling is really a concern. Had he perform better with the ball, we could have easily playing the finals.
His batting has been awesome, but we must remember he needs about 10 balls to get his eye in and then can launch. Against the Australians in Australia his bowling is a liability, they know that he is a short of a length bowler and is a great target for Hayden. He looked a bit pained yesterday with his heel injury, needs more overs under his belt and needs to dig the ball into the wicket to get some bounce. Great in the field though, shows more commitment than some of the others.

Daniel Vettori: Very defensive bowler. Sometimes, I feel on Patel is better than him

Jeetan Patel: Bowler with bright future.
Agree


Bond: Very normal bowler, He did not produce his magic as everone is expecting..
Bowled within himself, he can bowl exceptionally well but with the constant cotton wooling by the NZ management he doubts himself and goes easy so that he can play more games.

Franklin: His poor bowling and fielding costed us a place in finals.
One of NZ's better performed bowlers in the series - which I admit does say a lot. Fielding has been damaged by Travis Wilson.

Gillespie: Reliable bowler.
Yep


All the kiwis forgot catching cricket ball., bracewell should make them learn catching a football first.

Very dissapointed with the way they FIELDED.

From ...

A Disheartened KIWI FAN.
They look confused since the implementation of the fielding coach, who has hardly improved the fielding performance. They are trying to be too flashy in the field and look ridiculous, and give away runs easily. The team lack leadership and need some confidence, as that is probably the difference between England and NZ in yesterday's match.
 

Blaze

Banned
ffs. Switch on sports talkback and 8 out of the first 10 people to call blame Fleming and say he should be dropped.

He got 106 off 149. That left 164 off 151 for the other 10 batsmen. Not that hard...
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Oh that was painful to watch. England presented that match to us carefully gift wrapped with a nice little ribbon around it, and we threw it away.

The full list of things that went wrong:

Fielding: Pathetic again. Three dropped chances, none of them difficult. Taylor's drop off Flintoff ultimately only cost 5 or 10 runs, and Fulton's the same again, but in the end those 10 or 20 runs were rather significant. And the drop off Collingwood was one of the defining moments of the match.

Besides the catching, the outfielding was sloppy, the throwing poor, and Styris made himself look like a complete moron by missing the simplest of run outs. I don't know whether the new players in the side are naturally bad fielders, or whether Bracewell has gotten sloppy on his fielding drills or what, but something has gone dramatically wrong since a year or two ago.

Vincent: Did well for the most part, but got out playing a dreadful shot when the occasion called for sensible accumulation for the next 10 overs.

Fulton: Dreadful. Came in and instead of rotating the strike, usually managed to only pick up a solitary single off the last ball of the over he faced. His plodding nature is somewhat masked when there's an aggressive batsman like Vincent at the other end, but his poor batting here allowed England to start building up pressure which would ultimately cost the match. On top of it all, he played a terrible shot to get out, when he needed to make good on his poor start. Play him somewhere else or drop him, Taylor should be the no.3

The Taylor run-out: absolutely disastrous, just when Taylor was starting to pick up the 2's nicely. The end result was not only did New Zealand have to consolidate at a crucial time, but Fleming seemed to lose all confidence in himself as a result of it. This ultimately lead to...

The end of Fleming's innings: When Taylor was dismissed Fleming had scored 85 off 115 balls. He proceeded to score just 21 from his next 34 balls faced. Nice to see him finally score some runs, but even when the scoring rate was only asking for 7.5 an over he fell to peices.

So there we have it. There are some positive things to come out of this tour:

Taylor: looks very promising. His first trip overseas, and in a pretty intimidating atmosphere and he came out of it pretty well to be New Zealand's top run scorer for the tournament.

Vincent: Done well so far, and seems to have eliminated that urge of his to smash everything for six, but needs to sustain his good form this time round.

Franklin: Don't look at me like that, Franklin was New Zealand's second highest wicket taker at a pretty solid average. It could have been even better if Strauss had been given out to a pretty adjacent lbw shout (although maybe that's repayment for the lbw he got earlier in the competition). And he looks to be a nice complement to the other hitters at the death. Not sure how he'll go at the west indies, but for once his bowling in one dayers doesn't look like complete rubbish, and he needs to be, with Mills looking likely to be out for 6 months. He's also normally a pretty solid fielder, so hopefully that'll be the last we'll see of those dropped chances.

Oram: Superb batting, which won us two games and nearly snatched a 3rd. It's not to good that his bowling rapidly seems to be degenerating, but his future is as a batsman anyway.

Bond: Seems fit enough, and once he finally was forced to string a couple of games together, came up with what should have been a match winning bowling effort. While it's always more exciting to watch him bowling up in the high 140's and low 150's, I think he actually looks a better bowler when he settles into a steady pace in the low 140's, which is still quick enough to allow him to trouble good batsmen, but allows him greater control and swing.
 
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Natman20

International Debutant
In someways Flemings innings was actually not really that helpful. Because of his slow ticking over of runs the run-rate required just went up and up. Certainly still not in any form IMO. Well what was expected to be a close match turned out to be pretty dull in the end for NZ. With the strong base they had 7.9 runs per over in the last 10 should not have been that much of a problem.
 

Natman20

International Debutant
Franklin as I say everytime he plays should be dropped and someone else given a go. He is too easy to score runs off and you can expect one ball to go to the boudary every oover which is simple not good enough. Yes he does take some vital wickets but thats mainly due to batsmen going after his bowling and playing silly shots. Gillespie, looked good at the start of his ODI career but since then has been to expensive and hasnt seemed to take a wicket in a long time. Vettori, a bit over-rated, he only really keeps the economy down on occassion and sometimes takes a wicket or two. Bond, Showed glimpses of fire and venom we have seen in the past last night put could not carry it through the whole innings. Oram, again he is not doing very well with the ball and needs to learn to not bowl it short every single time. Styris, good on his day. For the batsman. Fleming, Yes he did score a vital century but his strike rate was poor and was one of the reasons the NZ run-rate slipped so much throughout. Vincent, Was a bit edgy but is in good form just trying to keep the tempo going before getting out. Taylor, Un-proven and again fails to do anything spectacular with the ball, I have a sinking suspicion that he will turn out like Fulton, How and Marshall and not be able to pass 50 regularly (although he was only run-out last night). Fulton, Not the most in control players but made a reasonable start before he lost it. The rest, Well trying to up the tempo was obviously too hard on that pitch (was there even a six hit in that innings?). Styris came and went as did Oram (I think he may have become too over confident) McCullum (His run of failures is kind of depressing) Vettori (In a bad batting rut) Franklin (should have came in before Vettori to hit boundaries although Vettori did reach the boundary a few times) and Bond who is someone Franklin should have made sure not to have the strike at any stage of the final overs.

There we go, a fustrating time again for NZ. Not consistent enough with the ball and fail to capitilise on any batting oppotunities given. Congrats England for coming back after complete trash at the start to allow Fleming to at least get some runs on the board. Flintoff and Panesar were the obvious keys to Englands success. They were the first to keep the runs down and then take crucial wickets which led NZ to a bit of a panic. Then a completely turned around Plunkett came in and bowled well to help finish off the victory. Collingwoods century was the best innings of the match and a good bowling spell probably made him the man of the moment.

For NZ I would say better luck next time but really its the world cup very soon and they need to be winning everything especially against an English outfit that has not been winning much ODI wise in the last few years. My confidence has dashed for NZs world cup hopes as they have no way near been competitive enough in the majority of their matches this season although we have come close on a few occassions. Two years ago I thought the NZ squad was well set up to become a winning one. Now we will have to wait to see in the world cup whether my failure prediction will come true.
 
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Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Franklin as I say everytime he plays should be dropped and someone else given a go. He is too easy to score runs off and you can expect one ball to go to the boudary every oover which is simple not good enough. Yes he does take some vital wickets but thats mainly due to batsmen going after his bowling and playing silly shots.
Franklin actually had a better economy rate than most of New Zealand's bowlers. Indeed, of all of New Zealand's bowlers, only Vettori was more restrictive.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Still not sure how we managed to win that one. When I left for work NZ were something like 50/0 from 7 overs! Hats off to Colly tho, always a whole-hearted bloke and got his rewards today.

I can't decide if it was a great win, a massive choke or simple sporting larceny.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Peter Fulton vs Brad Hodge. If you're going to get off to a slow start, you've got to make sure that you're in to catch up to a better rate.

Fleming's not to blame for the loss. Although him accelarating would have helped, it's very hard to get momentum going with your hitting when you're facing as few ball as he did in the last 10 overs.

When you look at a few of the NZ lower order, who do have the potential to score quickly, so far in the VB series when they've looked to up the run-rate and chase boundaries, they've failed to get bat-on-ball too often. You look at some of the Aus players, and even if they don't hit a boundary, they usually manage to get some bat on it and get a single, while too many balls to the NZ players (McCullum early in his innings has been a culprit a couple of times now) have gone through to the 'keeper.
 

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