Post Packer World XI - a discussion

[bagapath]

In the Chappell - Border - Waugh poll thread (http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41472-chappell-vs-border-vs-waugh.html) we got caught in a detailed discussion about whether they would make it to a world xi representing post packer era cricketers. I think this deserves a separate thread.

The last supertest between aus and WI concluded on april 10th 1979 (Cricinfo - 5th Supertest: WSC West Indies v WSC Australia at St John's, Apr 6-10, 1979)

I am going to use April 11th, 1979 as the starting date for working out the stats. I will keep a minimum cut off limit of 2000 runs for batsmen (average > 40) and 100 wickets for bowlers (average <30 ). 2000 runs and 100 wickets for all-rounders. batting avg > 25; bowling avg < 35) And 2000 runs and 100 dismissals for wicket keepers. Since the cut off limit is pretty low I want to leave out the matches against zimbabwe and bangladesh and the stats involving the ICC supertest between aus and World XI.

let me come up with a list of candidates in the next post before we start the discussion. I will also set up polls if necessary

 

[bagapath]

Openers:


ML Hayden (Aus) 1994-2009 96 174 13 7768 203 48.24 27 26 14
MA Taylor (Aus) 1989-1999 104 186 13 7525 334* 43.49 19 40 5
GA Gooch (Eng) 1980-1995 93 173 4 7499 333 44.37 18 38 8
DL Haynes (WI) 1979-1994 114 198 25 7290 184 42.13 18 36 10
CG Greenidge (WI) 1979-1991 88 146 14 5847 226 44.29 14 25 8
G Kirsten (SA) 1993-2002 81 144 11 5396 275 40.57 13 27 13
MJ Slater (Aus) 1993-2001 73 129 6 5308 219 43.15 14 21 9
SM Gavaskar (India) 1979-1987 73 118 6 5202 221 46.44 14 25 5
ME Trescothick (Eng) 2000-2006 70 135 9 5172 219 41.04 11 27 12
GC Smith (SA) 2002-2009 61 110 7 5119 277 49.69 14 21 7
ST Jayasuriya (SL) 1994-2007 75 132 7 5068 340 40.54 11 22 10
V Sehwag (India) 2002-2008 56 97 3 5030 319 53.51 14 15 9
JL Langer (Aus) 1993-2007 60 108 9 4982 250 50.32 16 17 6
HH Gibbs (SA) 1998-2008 62 110 5 4828 228 45.98 12 20 9
AJ Strauss (Eng) 2004-2009 51 95 3 3851 147 41.85 13 13 8
Saeed Anwar (Pak) 1990-2001 45 73 1 3372 188* 46.83 10 20 7
AJ Stewart (Eng) 1990-1999 45 77 2 3348 190 44.64 8 17 4
MP Vaughan (Eng) 2002-2008 34 66 3 2857 197 45.34 10 7 5
NS Sidhu (India) 1983-1999 43 66 1 2844 201 43.75 8 14 8
DC Boon (Aus) 1985-1993 36 63 5 2614 200 45.06 8 10 5
MH Richardson (NZ) 2000-2004 31 56 2 2308 145 42.74 3 16 1
G Boycott (Eng) 1979-1982 28 53 6 2176 155 46.29 6 9 3

 

[bagapath]

the most obvious candidates from the list above are gavaskar, hayden, greenidge, gooch, taylor, sehwag, langer, smith, jayasuriya and anwar.

while discussing a combined WI - Aus XI we chose hayden and greenidge. with players from other countries available now, will they both get the boot or will one of them stay?

 

[Athlai]

ML Hayden
SM Gavaskar
RT Ponting
IVA Richards
SR Tendulkar
JH Kallis
AC Gilchrist (+)
Imran Khan
Sir RJ Hadlee
MD Marshall
M Muralitharan

 

[Matt79]

What's the process you want to use Bagapath? A series of polls by position as you've done in the past?

And eligibility is having participated in at least 1 test match post 11 April 1979? For players who played before and after that date, are we only taking into account their post WSC performances, or the entirety of their career?

For openers, you've done a pretty comprehensive job there listing potentials.

 

[Precambrian]

ML Hayden
SM Gavaskar
RT Ponting
IVA Richards
SR Tendulkar
JH Kallis
AC Gilchrist (+)
Imran Khan
Sir RJ Hadlee
MD Marshall
M Muralitharan

Sehwag instead of Hayden, Ambrose instead of Hadlee, and Warne as standby for Ambrose in case of subcontinent tests.

 

[bagapath]

What's the process you want to use Bagapath? A series of polls by position as you've done in the past?

And eligibility is having participated in at least 1 test match post 11 April 1979? For players who played before and after that date, are we only taking into account their post WSC performances, or the entirety of their career?

For openers, you've done a pretty comprehensive job there listing potentials.

well, i thought the last time we did those polls they worked brilliantly. some really interesting points came up in the discussions. so i intend to open the polls soon for specific spots.

i want to keep only the post WSC performances and at least 2000 runs, 100 wickets as the cut off limit. even with 2000 runs we have close to hundred batters to choose from. dont know how many players we will end up with if we have 1 test as an entry criterion.

will start the openrs' poll now.

 

[bagapath]

The openers' poll http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41517-choose-two-openers-post-packer-era-world-xi.html and the wicket keeper's poll http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/41519-who-your-wicket-keeper-post-packer-dream-xi.html are open now.

 

[JBH001]

Nice to see you doing one of these, bagapath.

I was also thinking the other day, it would be nice to do a combined best ODI/Test XII. Therefore would have to select an all-time side for both formats of the game. I guess we would have to choose from players post ODI cricket, we wont be able to just assume that players like Bradman, Miller, Sobers would have flourished in ODI cricket (although it is likely that they would).

Might be worth keeping that in reserve for some other time.

 

[Zinzan]

Sehwag instead of Hayden, Ambrose instead of Hadlee, and Warne as standby for Ambrose in case of subcontinent tests.

Lol @ your argument for Hadlee's exclusion, especially given he's in most people's "All-time" test team, let alone a post-packer XI

 

[Perm]

What's even more ridiculous is Sehwag over Hayden.

 

[chaminda_00]

Lol @ your argument for Hadlee's exclusion, especially given he's in most people's "All-time" test team, let alone a post-packer XI

TBF Ambrose would be a lot of people's all time side as well.

 

[Zinzan]

TBF Ambrose would be a lot of people's all time side as well.

He's been in a few, the majority of hypothetical all time test teams I've seen usually have Marshall & Hadlee as the main two strike bowlers

 

[chaminda_00]

He's been in a few, the majority of hypothetical all time test teams I've seen usually have Marshall & Hadlee as the main two strike bowlers

Marshall wouldn't make too many all time side outside CW. When it comes to fast bowlers you could probably pick about 4-5 guys and they would all be on par. Though statically Marshall and Hadlee are ahead. It is horse for courses, but Ambrose would be right up there. Not really massive thing to have him ahead of Hadlee. Just comes down to personal opinion.

 

[R_D]

What's even more ridiculous is Sehwag over Hayden.

not that ridiculous tbh... comparable record to Hayden.. some could even argue, he has done better against better attacks than Haydos.

 

[bagapath]

Nice to see you doing one of these, bagapath.

I was also thinking the other day, it would be nice to do a combined best ODI/Test XII. Therefore would have to select an all-time side for both formats of the game. I guess we would have to choose from players post ODI cricket, we wont be able to just assume that players like Bradman, Miller, Sobers would have flourished in ODI cricket (although it is likely that they would).

Might be worth keeping that in reserve for some other time.

JBH! combined xi for ODI and tests sounds pretty interesting. I can already imagine debates right at the top. sachin and gilchrist are obviously the openers for ODI but for tests? anyways, we will get to it soon.

in the post packer world xi, as of now Suni Gavaskar looks like he is going to be the first opener for sure. Hayden and Greenidge are running neck to neck for the other slot.

Gilchrist is sure to bag the wicket keeping job.

the middle order is going to be one hell of a selection.

i am thinking of using stats from specific batting slots and not combine all middle order positions. let me know if thats ok with you. i will keep 3,4, and 5 specific. and use no.6 for choosing an additional batsman or an all-rounder. also, after choosing two opening bowlwers and one spinner, we will have the rest of bowlers available for fourth bowling slot. it worked well last time.

 

[bagapath]

couple of years ago, it used to take four days for getting 30+ votes in a poll of this nature. this time, within a few hours 32 votes have come in for both polls. may be it is because this is a weekend. i guess we will be able to wrap this up soon and start the next two polls - for opening bowlers and spinner in a day or two.

 

[archie mac]

Knott does not qualify?

 

[bagapath]

Knott does not qualify?

no archie mac.

he didnt play much after packer circus finished on Apr 10, 1979.

APE Knott 6 214 70* 21.40 0 17 0

 

[bagapath]

guys... before i start the poll for the bowlers, i want to redefine the cut-off to limit the number of candidates. thinking of keeping avg < 30, wickets > 100, econ rate < 3, bowling strike rate < 60 for fast bowlers and strike rate < 72 for spinners. off the top of my my head i can say waqar, akhthar, lee, vaas, kapil and caddick wont be on the list. let me know if this is okay for everyone. i just dont want to give more than 30 options while trying to choose 2 of the very best.