Should the ICC and Test nations bother with associate teams

[Matt79]

I suspect some members will take this as flame-baiting, but I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm just wondering what proportion of members here support the effort to expand the game into new markets and countries, and who thinks the current nine (I don't count Zimbabwe anymore) nations are enough to be getting on with, and that the ICC should devote its resources into levelling the playing field amongst those nine?

 

[Goughy]

The Test nations have no responsibilities to any other nation. Its a competetive International sport not a cub scout get together. Nations should be looking to crush each other rather than help them.

The ICC on the other hand has a responsibility towards the game on a global scale and the development of the sport in emerging areas is key to that.

So basically, individually countries shouldnt look to help, but collectively they should.

 

[Perm]

Haha, I can see a certain member having a field day in this thread.

 

[Richard]

As I've said a few times, many people have an inflated idea of the amount of expansion that is possible in cricket - even I$C$C have made a concession of sorts in removing the "promoting the game as a Global sport" bit from their mission-statement.

Nonetheless, if there's genuine potential for developing the game in a country (Afghanistan, for example) then obviously it'd be mad not to go for it. But attempting to promote Bermuda as an international force in themselves is utterly ludicrous. The population of the entire country is smaller than a Toronto suburb.

 

[Richard]

Haha, I can see a certain member having a field day in this thread.

A certain Los Angeles resident.

 

[Perm]

A certain Los Angeles resident.

Indeed. He'll come in here with all guns blazing.

 

[Flem274*]

Can't wait.

I'm with Richard on this one, if the game has a reasonable fanbase then give em a leg up. If not, don't bother.

 

[pasag]

On the one hand I'd like to see teams like Holland, Ireland etc succeed and if they need abit of help, I don't see the problem with it. However this help should come in the form of structural and domestic foundations as opposed to throwing money at them. The fundamental belief that, let them play in the World Cup and hope that it takes off in the host country is no more than wishful thinking. And the game will never be big in China or America and the attempt to globalise the game there is nothing more than pissing money in the wind.

I'll continue supporting and following associate cricket on it's own level, but really, does anyone see any of them ever becoming a standard of any sort? No matter how much money is spent, it wont happen. It's a pipe dream and nothing more than that. Time and recourses should be spent trying to consolidate the game on the home front, where it ain't all that rosy itself. Cricket should not be trying to establish itself in places that it's quite obvious will never ever be successful in any way.

 

[Matt79]

I guess part of my concern with it is that there is probably more that could be done in some of the Test nations to provide better access to both elite facilities for the Test and FC set ups and the fundamentals at a grass roots level, and the ICC might be better served shoring up its position in those countries and in the process improving the product they already have. Should add as well that's its nothing 'personal' against Ireland, Holland, Kenya etc, I just don't see them ever becoming Test standard...

 

[Richard]

Ireland certainly not - Kenya it depends on whether they can establish a decent Cricket Board (the country has always been notoriously corrupt and that'll naturally be a handicap, but not neccessarily a terminal one). But Holland... I've always thought there was a chance. It needs more Taricks and Steulens, but they've always been a team capable of beating county sides on their own terms, for a good decade at least.

If there is ever going to be a next international-class team, my money would be on them.

 

[Matt79]

It needs more Taricks and Steulens

A lot more, especially if its not going to be crushed by soccer and hockey, I'd have thought. Although perhaps one of our esteemed Dutch members could enlighten us on how its tracking at the moment in terms of crowd interest and youth participation?

 

[BoyBrumby]

China & the US are pipe dreams, but there are countries where cricket does have a real chance if it's given a bit of a hand. However, far from supporting them, I personally think an issue that needs to be addressed is England's poaching of talent from associate nations.

Despite Richard's assertion that Ireland don't have any chance of becoming test standard (short & medium term he's correct in fairness), the fact is that more Irishman are currently playing FC cricket than from any other associate nation. There is clearly talent there, albeit not in massive numbers, but if your Joyces & your O'Briens are throwing their lot in with us the Irish board are really operating with both hands & both feet tied together. It's not peculiar to the Irish either, the Danish-born Amjad Khan was on our last A-tour & one suspects that if young Kervezee (sp?) makes a go of things at Warwicks he'll end up wearing the three lions sooner or later.

I personally don't blame any player for wanting to test himself at the highest level & for players from associate nations there is no way they can do this except by switching allegiances, but surely it isn't too much of a logistical nightmare to allow them to play foe their real nation in other levels?

 

[Kweek]

A lot more, especially if its not going to be crushed by soccer and hockey, I'd have thought. Although perhaps one of our esteemed Dutch members could enlighten us on how its tracking at the moment in terms of crowd interest and youth participation?

ooh good timing, always interested these threads.

as far as I can see, youth participation is growing again, it had a bit of a collapse the last few years, but it's back on track.
this WC did a few mircales for us, as we now have randoms walking past our games saying HEY I know what this is! this is cricket! those are as far as I know, good signs.
crowd interest is decent, recently a official twenty/20 league has started, and the first round saw about 250/300 people coming down to watch, good crowds that is.

main thing is that the hoofdklasse(premier league) standard is getting higher.
another valid point made by Ian Pont(essex fast bowling coach, ex holland bowling coach) is that Holland should at the moment try to sign Australians/South-Africans with dutch passports, this way it will higher the level on the short term, but also on the long term as they will bring experiance and quality.
Douglas Bollinger is a player like that, and i'm sure Jack can enlighten us with more players that are dutch passport holders, or could hold one.
Ryan ten Doeschate is the best example we have.

 

[Dick Rockett]

On the one hand I'd like to see teams like Holland, Ireland etc succeed and if they need abit of help, I don't see the problem with it. However this help should come in the form of structural and domestic foundations as opposed to throwing money at them. The fundamental belief that, let them play in the World Cup and hope that it takes off in the host country is no more than wishful thinking. And the game will never be big in China or America and the attempt to globalise the game there is nothing more than pissing money in the wind.

I'll continue supporting and following associate cricket on it's own level, but really, does anyone see any of them ever becoming a standard of any sort? No matter how much money is spent, it wont happen. It's a pipe dream and nothing more than that. Time and recourses should be spent trying to consolidate the game on the home front, where it ain't all that rosy itself. Cricket should not be trying to establish itself in places that it's quite obvious will never ever be successful in any way.

What he said.

 

[Richard]

China & the US are pipe dreams, but there are countries where cricket does have a real chance if it's given a bit of a hand. However, far from supporting them, I personally think an issue that needs to be addressed is England's poaching of talent from associate nations.

Despite Richard's assertion that Ireland don't have any chance of becoming test standard (short & medium term he's correct in fairness), the fact is that more Irishman are currently playing FC cricket than from any other associate nation. There is clearly talent there, albeit not in massive numbers, but if your Joyces & your O'Briens are throwing their lot in with us the Irish board are really operating with both hands & both feet tied together. It's not peculiar to the Irish either, the Danish-born Amjad Khan was on our last A-tour & one suspects that if young Kervezee (sp?) makes a go of things at Warwicks he'll end up wearing the three lions sooner or later.

I personally don't blame any player for wanting to test himself at the highest level & for players from associate nations there is no way they can do this except by switching allegiances, but surely it isn't too much of a logistical nightmare to allow them to play foe their real nation in other levels?

Viewing it as "England poaching" is IMO wrong. Those players have as much right to play for England as anyone, and if I$C$C hadn't been attempting to make the illusion of Global-ness it's probable Irish players wouldn't even face the obstacle.

 

[headhunter]

China & the US are pipe dreams, but there are countries where cricket does have a real chance if it's given a bit of a hand. However, far from supporting them, I personally think an issue that needs to be addressed is England's poaching of talent from associate nations.

Despite Richard's assertion that Ireland don't have any chance of becoming test standard (short & medium term he's correct in fairness), the fact is that more Irishman are currently playing FC cricket than from any other associate nation. There is clearly talent there, albeit not in massive numbers, but if your Joyces & your O'Briens are throwing their lot in with us the Irish board are really operating with both hands & both feet tied together. It's not peculiar to the Irish either, the Danish-born Amjad Khan was on our last A-tour & one suspects that if young Kervezee (sp?) makes a go of things at Warwicks he'll end up wearing the three lions sooner or later.

I personally don't blame any player for wanting to test himself at the highest level & for players from associate nations there is no way they can do this except by switching allegiances, but surely it isn't too much of a logistical nightmare to allow them to play foe their real nation in other levels?

i totally agree england should be stopped from poaching players from other countries.

 

[andruid]

Should a parent bother with their children? Nope, let em starve and put the money saved in a hedge fund. Ok seriously, my thought is as much as its important for The ICC to have associates in their ranks, I haven't seen much in their current policy that says they aren't just making stuff up to keep the associates busy till they either give up or the ICC scraps them...so far. Would like the ICC to do three things. One, delink test status from full membership in the ICC. Two, connect the Intercontinental Cup to the proposed Test Championship somehow without prejudicing iconic series. Three, make full membership a reward for strong domestic structures, good governance, accountability etc etc, basically those things that BCCI make look easy but PCB make look impossible.

 

[Migara]

Definitely. Never would have seen a Murali, Sanga or a Shakib Al Hasan if associates were to be ignored.

 

[ganeshran]

They should be allowed to play ODIs with major countries in tri-nation series. Test spots however should be earned on the back of consistent performances.

More countries gives cricket a global appeal and ensures the survival of the sport. There are too few major cricketing nations IMO, we keep playing each other all the time.

 

[andruid]

They should be allowed to play ODIs with major countries in tri-nation series. Test spots however should be earned on the back of consistent performances.
More countries gives cricket a global appeal and ensures the survival of the sport. There are too few major cricketing nations IMO, we keep playing each other all the time.

Technically any associate with ODI status can organise matches with any of the full members. However, because they mostly have to do it outside the FTP scheduling and that associate matches aren't such big draws what we end up is is mostly Kenya v. Zimbabwe or Ireland/Scotland v. Whoever happens to be touring England at that point in time. The last time Kenya for instance got ODIs against other full members was when by reasons, I don't know, they got two games v. South Africa into the Future Tours Programme and even then they had to fork out 100k USD to make the games stick.